5 ms·

$95 dollars a semester. It shows you how society used to provide resources for people to bootstrap their lives. The same individuals who benefited from this i

$95 dollars a semester. It shows you how society used to provide resources for people to bootstrap their lives. The same individuals who benefited from this investment have not decided to pay it forward. They argue for lower taxes and support for education.

danielweber 12y ago
How much do you think community college costs these days after a Pell Grant?
- protomyth 12y ago
  Depends on the pell award. Place I am working is at $1,650/semester Tuition and Fees for 12+ credits (prorated for under 12 credits). Books are around $350 semester and we don't have housing yet.
- brohoolio 12y ago
  Is it more efficient to have a whole complicated financial aid system or just provide discounted access to everyone. Time is money.
  - ryanackley 12y ago
    A lot of states already heavily subsidize the tuition of public community colleges and universities for residents. Where I live, in FL, 75% of the cost is paid for by the State of Florida. I don't know about you, but 75% of the cost seems like a pretty sweet discount. Seems reasonable if you want more, you should have to go through some kind of application process.
    - zanny 12y ago
      I know most of my peers (myself included) could have gone to Penn State local campuses for 2 years and then 2 years at State College for free, only having to pay room board and food (and overpriced books). I went with a private liberal arts college that gave me nearly a whole boat though. I think even if you are under a 2.5GPA in high school Penn State subsidizes 80% of tuition and the state does another 10%, so each semester of courses would only be at most a few hundred dollars.
  - randall 12y ago
    +1 to this. As someone who had both scholarships and pell grants (i made money going to a state school in utah) I still would have just preferred discounted tuition for all.
  - gajomi 12y ago
    I want to second this point. The percentage of young adults (this is the demographic that represents most fo the current community college population) living below the poverty level is about 40% [1]. So even in the absolute worst case scenario where the Pell grant only applied to those below the poverty level and all those above that level started taking advantage of the free community college your efficiency could drop by a factor of two. In reality, there is a significant fraction of those below the poverty level who don't know about such Pell grant opportunities and the complexities of federal student aid and would never apply, but would jump at the opportunity for a free education. Also, a more realistic assessment of the efficiency question would require a better picture of how many people below the target of the Pell threshold would start taking advantage of the program. I would suspect that only a small fraction of people from the top 10% income bracket would pursue this, since they have other opportunities available. So lets say that we actually have something like a 50% reduction in efficiency to get the money to the target audience, and a side effect of a few tens of millions of people outside the target audience getting their education subsidized. There is obviously room for improvement, but I would support that scenario. [1]http://www.ihep.org/sites/default/files/uploads/docs/pubs/brief_a_portrait_of_low-income_young_adults_in_education.pdf http://www.ihep.org/sites/default/files/uploads/docs/pubs/br...
    - wildgift 12y ago
      At LATTC everyone knew about financial aid. It was the default situation. I haven't been there, but I've been to CC in a low income community, and the assumption was that you'd get financial aid. Being middle class, middle aged, and not qualifying, I had to quietly explain that my personal income was past the limit, etc. I didn't want to stick out. The problem these schools have is related to people lying to get financial aid, and then dropping out, never to be heard from again. If you get rid of the price, and school is free, all this fraud would end. (The fraud would happen elsewhere in the system.)
  - smacktoward 12y ago
    Not to mention that the more complicated the financial aid system becomes, the less likely the people who need educational help from a community college will be able to actually get it. By requiring you to already have the skills to navigate it, the complexity forms a barrier to entry that just discounting the cost does not.
    - danielweber 12y ago
      I'm sympathetic to this view. In general, I tend to favor flat programs that no one prices out of instead of need-based programs, because it gets rid of the marginal tax that happens when you earn more. (Every program that is just "for the poor" is a marginal tax on the person climbing out of poverty.) Also, I view the financial aid merely as price discrimination. We wouldn't consider another industry as compassionate for looking through our finances before deciding what we could "really afford." However, all that said: the FAFSA really isn't that hard to fill out. If a person cannot fill out the FAFSA, why are we sending them to college? Will we fill out their college application for them, too?
      - romaniv 12y ago
        FAFSA documents are not complicated to fill out, but the overall process require you to spend some amount of time on jumping through various hoops. Also, it has prerequisites and conditions you need to keep track of. For people who are short on money (and therefore time) all of that has significance.
        danielweber 12y ago
        College requires time and jumping through hoops. If you can't keep track of the FAFSA application, how are you going to keep track of the class assignments? Is the goal to make "attended college" become completely useless as a job market signal? Why are we trying to cram people into college if it means nothing?
        jacalata 12y ago
  - wildgift 12y ago
    At the school my partner went to, LA Trade Tech, it seemed like most students got financial aid. There were multiple offices involved in doing all the paperwork involved (in a multi-story building, too). The school was located in an area where the household income was around $25k per year, and many people worked at the minimum wage. It seemed absurd to me that they had to jump through so many hoops to get a few hundred dollars of aid.
- Ar-Curunir 12y ago
  $95 refers to the cost per semester at Sacramento State University.
Domenic_S 12y ago
Today, the cost is somewhere around $50/unit, not too bad. If I could allocate my tax dollars toward programs like Community College and other non-University options (Coursera?) I would be all about higher taxes for education. But I get fatigued and resentful when public institutions cry poverty and then we see things like this: > UC Berkeley Police Chief Victoria Harrison retired with a lump-sum package of $2.1 million and was immediately rehired as UC Berkeley police chief with higher pay than she had earned before her retirement. http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081212/news_lz1ed12top.html http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081212/news_lz1ed12top...
- es09 12y ago
  The 95$ per semester figure is for the State University at Sacramento - not for the community college. The current fees work out to ~5500$ per semester[1] for the same university. [1] http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/fee-rates/sacramento-history.shtml http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/fee-rates/sacram...
  - danielweber 12y ago
    Probably not a coincidence, at all, that $5500 is just under the Pell grant amount.
    - learc83 12y ago
      The Pell grant limit is per year. The $5500 is per semester, so the total yearly tuition is about 2x what the Pell grant pays.
  - steauengeglase 12y ago
    Wait, so between $327 and $587 (wonky 70s inflation) a semester in today's dollars? I'd have killed for that.
    - winter_blue 12y ago
      Between $327 and $587 per unit or credit, is extremely common for state universities. You generally have to be resident in the state for at least a year, to qualify. For example, tuition at Stony Brook[1] costs $6,170 annually. At 30 credits a year (15 per semester), that's $205 per unit/credit. You'll find that tuition in most state universities are around that range, across the country. [1] http://www.stonybrook.edu/undergraduate-admissions/cost-and-financial-aid/ http://www.stonybrook.edu/undergraduate-admissions/cost-and-...

danielweber 12y ago

How much do you think community college costs these days after a Pell Grant?

protomyth 12y ago
Depends on the pell award. Place I am working is at $1,650/semester Tuition and Fees for 12+ credits (prorated for under 12 credits). Books are around $350 semester and we don't have housing yet.
brohoolio 12y ago
Is it more efficient to have a whole complicated financial aid system or just provide discounted access to everyone. Time is money.
- ryanackley 12y ago
  A lot of states already heavily subsidize the tuition of public community colleges and universities for residents. Where I live, in FL, 75% of the cost is paid for by the State of Florida. I don't know about you, but 75% of the cost seems like a pretty sweet discount. Seems reasonable if you want more, you should have to go through some kind of application process.
  - zanny 12y ago
    I know most of my peers (myself included) could have gone to Penn State local campuses for 2 years and then 2 years at State College for free, only having to pay room board and food (and overpriced books). I went with a private liberal arts college that gave me nearly a whole boat though. I think even if you are under a 2.5GPA in high school Penn State subsidizes 80% of tuition and the state does another 10%, so each semester of courses would only be at most a few hundred dollars.
- randall 12y ago
  +1 to this. As someone who had both scholarships and pell grants (i made money going to a state school in utah) I still would have just preferred discounted tuition for all.
- gajomi 12y ago
  I want to second this point. The percentage of young adults (this is the demographic that represents most fo the current community college population) living below the poverty level is about 40% [1]. So even in the absolute worst case scenario where the Pell grant only applied to those below the poverty level and all those above that level started taking advantage of the free community college your efficiency could drop by a factor of two. In reality, there is a significant fraction of those below the poverty level who don't know about such Pell grant opportunities and the complexities of federal student aid and would never apply, but would jump at the opportunity for a free education. Also, a more realistic assessment of the efficiency question would require a better picture of how many people below the target of the Pell threshold would start taking advantage of the program. I would suspect that only a small fraction of people from the top 10% income bracket would pursue this, since they have other opportunities available. So lets say that we actually have something like a 50% reduction in efficiency to get the money to the target audience, and a side effect of a few tens of millions of people outside the target audience getting their education subsidized. There is obviously room for improvement, but I would support that scenario. [1]http://www.ihep.org/sites/default/files/uploads/docs/pubs/brief_a_portrait_of_low-income_young_adults_in_education.pdf http://www.ihep.org/sites/default/files/uploads/docs/pubs/br...
  - wildgift 12y ago
    At LATTC everyone knew about financial aid. It was the default situation. I haven't been there, but I've been to CC in a low income community, and the assumption was that you'd get financial aid. Being middle class, middle aged, and not qualifying, I had to quietly explain that my personal income was past the limit, etc. I didn't want to stick out. The problem these schools have is related to people lying to get financial aid, and then dropping out, never to be heard from again. If you get rid of the price, and school is free, all this fraud would end. (The fraud would happen elsewhere in the system.)
- smacktoward 12y ago
  Not to mention that the more complicated the financial aid system becomes, the less likely the people who need educational help from a community college will be able to actually get it. By requiring you to already have the skills to navigate it, the complexity forms a barrier to entry that just discounting the cost does not.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    I'm sympathetic to this view. In general, I tend to favor flat programs that no one prices out of instead of need-based programs, because it gets rid of the marginal tax that happens when you earn more. (Every program that is just "for the poor" is a marginal tax on the person climbing out of poverty.) Also, I view the financial aid merely as price discrimination. We wouldn't consider another industry as compassionate for looking through our finances before deciding what we could "really afford." However, all that said: the FAFSA really isn't that hard to fill out. If a person cannot fill out the FAFSA, why are we sending them to college? Will we fill out their college application for them, too?
    - romaniv 12y ago
      FAFSA documents are not complicated to fill out, but the overall process require you to spend some amount of time on jumping through various hoops. Also, it has prerequisites and conditions you need to keep track of. For people who are short on money (and therefore time) all of that has significance.
      - danielweber 12y ago
        College requires time and jumping through hoops. If you can't keep track of the FAFSA application, how are you going to keep track of the class assignments? Is the goal to make "attended college" become completely useless as a job market signal? Why are we trying to cram people into college if it means nothing?
        jacalata 12y ago
- wildgift 12y ago
  At the school my partner went to, LA Trade Tech, it seemed like most students got financial aid. There were multiple offices involved in doing all the paperwork involved (in a multi-story building, too). The school was located in an area where the household income was around $25k per year, and many people worked at the minimum wage. It seemed absurd to me that they had to jump through so many hoops to get a few hundred dollars of aid.
Ar-Curunir 12y ago
$95 refers to the cost per semester at Sacramento State University.

Domenic_S 12y ago

Today, the cost is somewhere around $50/unit, not too bad. If I could allocate my tax dollars toward programs like Community College and other non-University options (Coursera?) I would be all about higher taxes for education. But I get fatigued and resentful when public institutions cry poverty and then we see things like this: > UC Berkeley Police Chief Victoria Harrison retired with a lump-sum package of $2.1 million and was immediately rehired as UC Berkeley police chief with higher pay than she had earned before her retirement. http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081212/news_lz1ed12top.html http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20081212/news_lz1ed12top...

es09 12y ago
The 95$ per semester figure is for the State University at Sacramento - not for the community college. The current fees work out to ~5500$ per semester[1] for the same university. [1] http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/fee-rates/sacramento-history.shtml http://www.calstate.edu/budget/student-fees/fee-rates/sacram...
- danielweber 12y ago
  Probably not a coincidence, at all, that $5500 is just under the Pell grant amount.
  - learc83 12y ago
    The Pell grant limit is per year. The $5500 is per semester, so the total yearly tuition is about 2x what the Pell grant pays.
- steauengeglase 12y ago
  Wait, so between $327 and $587 (wonky 70s inflation) a semester in today's dollars? I'd have killed for that.
  - winter_blue 12y ago
    Between $327 and $587 per unit or credit, is extremely common for state universities. You generally have to be resident in the state for at least a year, to qualify. For example, tuition at Stony Brook[1] costs $6,170 annually. At 30 credits a year (15 per semester), that's $205 per unit/credit. You'll find that tuition in most state universities are around that range, across the country. [1] http://www.stonybrook.edu/undergraduate-admissions/cost-and-financial-aid/ http://www.stonybrook.edu/undergraduate-admissions/cost-and-...