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It's been frustrating to see this cross-talk between the two "camps" on the immigration issue. You're right, the most common criticism of PG's (and now Sam's) s

It's been frustrating to see this cross-talk between the two "camps" on the immigration issue. You're right, the most common criticism of PG's (and now Sam's) stance on immigration reform has been that it would be used to depress domestic wages for software engineers, and they keep not addressing that directly, which makes it easy for critics to continue beating that particular drum. (Some other people, including dang at the top comment in the thread at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8799572 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8799572, have rebutted that aspect of the call for immigration reform.) And perception is part of the problem too. On one side, you have some VC and incubator people saying there just isn't enough talent domestically, and on the other, you have people who say they are talented and looking for work and not getting anywhere. We really need a good argument in favor of immigration reform. PG's essay really didn't help matters; there needs to be something written with some specific ideas, some on-the-record statements from hot companies that can't find talent, and a direct response to the critics on the wage issue, at the least. Something that would meet the desired standards for long-form content submitted to HN if it didn't come with a recognizable byline. I'm still on the fence on this thing. California is the leading exporter of agriculture in the U.S. in part because of a huge, cheap immigrant labor force. That helps to keep the cost of food low, which benefits a lot of people and benefits California quite a lot overall. It also keeps the cost of agricultural labor low. It's pretty unlikely that that is the sort of immigration that PG and others are agitating for, but without any specifics, that's only an assumption.

happyscrappy 12y ago
For all the talk of ending racism in the Valley they have blinders when it comes to hiring and would rather have more immigration than fix the problem by training and hiring the poor minorities that are citizens.
- humanrebar 12y ago
  I agree that companies should hire more innately smart people and then train them for their niches. I think the charge of racism is a bit of a leap in this context.
  - happyscrappy 12y ago
    It is kind of telling that companies would rather import engineers from Dehli than train ones from Oakland.
humanrebar 12y ago
> We really need a good argument in favor of immigration reform. I don't know. I'm not a pollster, but simple and easy immigration for skilled workers (doctors, scientists, entrepreneurs, etc.) is pretty popular. Likewise, background checks for employment, voting, and a few other things are pretty popular. Generally open borders and expansion of flawed programs (like H1B) have mixed popularity at best. The problem is that politicians that are pro-background-check and pro-skilled-immigration. Just like in a lot of issues these days, I feel like there's a lot of consensus around a middle ground, but partisans on both sides are loathe to actually approach that middle ground.

happyscrappy 12y ago

For all the talk of ending racism in the Valley they have blinders when it comes to hiring and would rather have more immigration than fix the problem by training and hiring the poor minorities that are citizens.

humanrebar 12y ago
I agree that companies should hire more innately smart people and then train them for their niches. I think the charge of racism is a bit of a leap in this context.
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  It is kind of telling that companies would rather import engineers from Dehli than train ones from Oakland.

humanrebar 12y ago

> We really need a good argument in favor of immigration reform. I don't know. I'm not a pollster, but simple and easy immigration for skilled workers (doctors, scientists, entrepreneurs, etc.) is pretty popular. Likewise, background checks for employment, voting, and a few other things are pretty popular. Generally open borders and expansion of flawed programs (like H1B) have mixed popularity at best. The problem is that politicians that are pro-background-check and pro-skilled-immigration. Just like in a lot of issues these days, I feel like there's a lot of consensus around a middle ground, but partisans on both sides are loathe to actually approach that middle ground.