4 ms·

Good essay, but one small nitpick: The problems with education are well-documented—teachers make far too little, it’s too difficult to fire bad teache

by pen2l 12y ago

Good essay, but one small nitpick: The problems with education are well-documented—teachers make far too little, it’s too difficult to fire bad teachers, some cultures don’t value education, etc. Many of these are easy to fix—pay teachers a lot more in exchange for a change in the tenure rules, for example—and some issues (like cultural ones) are probably going to be very difficult to fix. As another HN'er has pointed out, teacher pay or funding is absolutely not the issue. Per rayiner: Judge Posner on such comparisons: http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2011/01/the-pisa-rankings-and-the-role-of-schools-in-student-performance-on-standardized-testsposner.html http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2011/01/the-pisa-rankings-... More numbers: http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html?m=1 http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-abou... The solution is not to pay teachers more or have better teachers. I'm not convinced test scores are even all that sensitive to teacher quality within a wide range. The solution is to figure out a way to deal with inner city Chicago and places like it. The legacy of slavery, segregation, and white flight. A place where kids come from generations of uneducated parents and go to school fearing for their physical safety in the face of gangs, drugs, etc. > Sometimes the government people ask “Would you ever move YC out of the US?” with nervous laughter? I really like it here and I sure hope we don’t, but never say never. Hah. :) No you won't. Or, not that you won't, rather, it seems beneath you guys to say something like this. Of course you would, and should move out of the US if it proves to be a profitable decision, it just seems a little underhanded to use it as a political bargaining tool to get your aims. But I understand now that this is how the game works, so I guess I'm undecided about how I feel about this.

sudioStudio64 12y ago
You are right. If impoverished areas aren't counted the US actually ranks quite high in education compared to other countries. Its inequality that stems from the historical precedents you mention that determine outcomes.
- hellbannotifier 12y ago
  Looks like you've been hellbanned. Replying here because it's the last comment of yours with a serviceable reply link.
humanrebar 12y ago
> The solution is to figure out a way to deal with inner city Chicago and places like it. The legacy of slavery, segregation, and white flight. The inner city is definitely a problem, especially when concerns about crime and safety get in the way of basic education. But perhaps the worst off, regardless of race, are people who live out in the country, probably because they are consistently the most impoverished people in the nation. I see all kinds of pilot programs in D.C., NYC, and so on. I don't generally see them in Winona, Mississippi. And it's universally agreed that small town Mississippi is a rough place to get an education. As for data, go look at the ranking of states' education programs: http://www.alec.org/publications/report-card-on-american-education/ http://www.alec.org/publications/report-card-on-american-edu... ...now compare that list against a population density map of the U.S. I say all that to say that the conversation here and elsewhere really miss the mark for a huge chunk of struggling Americans. Cheaper housing is great, sure. But cheap housing isn't the problem for people in rural areas. Access to affordable broadband internet sure is, though.
tzs 12y ago
From the Judge Posner article you linked to: Analysis of the PISA results has revealed some other interesting facts. One is that higher teacher salaries dominate small class size as a factor in high PISA scores. This is a reassuring finding because it suggests that secondary school education can be improved at no net increase in cost, since higher teacher salaries are offset by larger classes—if class size is raised in proportion to increases in teacher salaries, there is no net increase in the school’s cost, and there should actually be a reduction in cost in the long term because a reduction in the number of classrooms reduces the size and therefore cost of a school even if each classroom is larger That seems to indicate that paying teachers more does help.

by pen2l 12y ago

sudioStudio64 12y ago

You are right. If impoverished areas aren't counted the US actually ranks quite high in education compared to other countries. Its inequality that stems from the historical precedents you mention that determine outcomes.

hellbannotifier 12y ago
Looks like you've been hellbanned. Replying here because it's the last comment of yours with a serviceable reply link.

humanrebar 12y ago

> The solution is to figure out a way to deal with inner city Chicago and places like it. The legacy of slavery, segregation, and white flight. The inner city is definitely a problem, especially when concerns about crime and safety get in the way of basic education. But perhaps the worst off, regardless of race, are people who live out in the country, probably because they are consistently the most impoverished people in the nation. I see all kinds of pilot programs in D.C., NYC, and so on. I don't generally see them in Winona, Mississippi. And it's universally agreed that small town Mississippi is a rough place to get an education. As for data, go look at the ranking of states' education programs: http://www.alec.org/publications/report-card-on-american-education/ http://www.alec.org/publications/report-card-on-american-edu... ...now compare that list against a population density map of the U.S. I say all that to say that the conversation here and elsewhere really miss the mark for a huge chunk of struggling Americans. Cheaper housing is great, sure. But cheap housing isn't the problem for people in rural areas. Access to affordable broadband internet sure is, though.

tzs 12y ago

From the Judge Posner article you linked to: Analysis of the PISA results has revealed some other interesting facts. One is that higher teacher salaries dominate small class size as a factor in high PISA scores. This is a reassuring finding because it suggests that secondary school education can be improved at no net increase in cost, since higher teacher salaries are offset by larger classes—if class size is raised in proportion to increases in teacher salaries, there is no net increase in the school’s cost, and there should actually be a reduction in cost in the long term because a reduction in the number of classrooms reduces the size and therefore cost of a school even if each classroom is larger That seems to indicate that paying teachers more does help.