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>It's the future. If you're not remote, find a way to fix that. Would you suggest this even for new grads looking for a first job? I just know that commuting

by eertami 12y ago

>It's the future. If you're not remote, find a way to fix that. Would you suggest this even for new grads looking for a first job? I just know that commuting every day is going to be incredibly depressing but I haven't seen much in the way of remote opportunities for fresh grads.

wiremine 12y ago
> Would you suggest this even for new grads looking for a first job? Nope. I've been a full-time remote worker for 6.5 years, and 1/2 time (2 days a week) for 4 years before that. During that time I've managed and hired remote workers. The reality is remote work is not for everyone, and I think that is even more so for new grads. There is a lot of mentoring that happens early in someone's career, and that is difficult to pick up in a remote environment. I think over time the need for having that on-site mentoring decreases, but it's critical in the first 12 to 24 months.
- odonnellryan 12y ago
  I think developers forget sometimes - and I really don't mean this in a negative way - that they are people too, not machines. People generally need some level of human contact, in person, to grow and form strong bonds with each other. I think remote works great, but it only works if you get to see some people you work with sometimes. The money the company saves can be put into a fund to bring the team together a few times a year for team building/vacation. The details (optional? mandatory? where? who?) are per company, but I think companies should start thinking differently. Remote all the time, in person when needed. Not in person all the time, and remote during extremes (car breaks, weather, etc.)
  - normloman 12y ago
    My problem with a company vacation: The people I work with are not my friends. I despise most of them. This is true for every place I've worked. It's probably true for most people here. You don't chose your co-workers. And now you're forcing me to take my vacation with these people, who I put up with every day at work. You may be puzzled reading this. "But my company is like a family." Some companies are really like this; everyone's your friend. But if every company was like this, we wouldn't have shows like "The Office." It's also hard to expect everyone to go on a vacation. What if your kid has to go to school? What if your spouse has a job, and has to stay home. Can you ask people to leave their family behind for a week so they can bond with their co-workers? Then you might say "fine, just make the vacation optional." You won't be fired for not going, but when it's time for performance reviews, who's gonna have "not a team player" on their report? The one person who didn't attend. But you make a point. We're people. We need contact. My solution? Work at a co-working space a few times a week. Work out of a library or cafe every so often. And get everyone on your team to use video conferencing. And if your team lives in a close vicinity, it's totally reasonable to schedule some day trips.
    - odonnellryan 12y ago
      I don't think that is healthy at all. Let's say you have a favorite person that you really enjoy being with all the time, at most you'll probably manage to get 50 hrs a week in with them. Way less if you do any of the following (and more) alone: exercise, study, side projects, home renovations, reading, movies, etc.. Most people spend at least 30 hours a week with their coworkers. 3/5 ratio is insane for people you hate! How do you think that shapes your attitude, personality, etc.. and how does that impact your happiness? My company is absolutely not like a family, it is very much so work. But, if I hated everyone, or even most of them, it wouldn't work out! Company vacations (or whatever you want to call them) are silly (IMO) if you're already seeing those people 30+ hours a week. I don't think it is very silly if you're seeing them < 8 hrs a week.
      - normloman 12y ago
        You're not picking up on my hyperbole. I don't actively hate everyone around me. I'm saying there's no guarantee the people I work with are gonna be the same people I'd hag out with outside of work. I feel I have to say this, because I notice so many articles and comments on HN consisting of founders calling their start-up a family and stressing culture fit. This is a bad idea for a host of reasons. In most workplaces, you aren't obligated to like your coworkers. Just to tolerate them, and work as a team. Making me go away with them for a week doesn't sound like a "vacation." It sounds like a ton of work. It seems you agree with me on that point, but reckon it's ok for remote workers. That's where we disagree. I don't take jobs that require me to travel, and that wouldn't change for remote work. I should point out that even if you tolerate most of your coworkers, there's probably one you really hate. Maybe they have an annoying laugh, microwave fish in the break room, and constantly make bad jokes. Imagine taking a vacation with that person! But hey, part of life is learning to work with people who are different than you. I hope we don't lose that as people shift into remote working situations.
    - coob 12y ago
      > I despise most of them Doesn't sound like the problem is with your colleagues.
- avinassh 12y ago
  would recommend remote working for someone who has 2 years+ experience?
  - wiremine 12y ago
    Yes, I think that's a reasonable time to start thinking about working remotely, depending on what sort of career path you're looking for. I think it's difficult to do management for the first time in a remote environment, although it isn't impossible. If you want to freelance, remote work is ideal. And, if you can freelance for a 100% distributed company, you almost fit right into the culture.
sergiotapia 12y ago
Absolutely not. You gain vital experience working in a real office with real more experienced people. Don't forgot about that benefit when you're just starting out.
m_t 12y ago
If your going to commute, make the most of it. I've been working in Montréal for 2 years, walking 10 minutes to the office. It's only a hard commute when it's freezing/snowing. Now that I'm back in a big city and I have to take the subway for 45 minutes twice a day, I'm not depressed. Sure, I miss enjoying the sun once in a while, but at least now I have time to read.
ryanSrich 12y ago
It's going to be tough getting a remote job as a new grad. Not impossible, but tough. If I could give any advice it would be to get a decent location-dictated job first. I worked for a little less than one year at my first job before jumping ship and finding my first (and current) remote job. PM me if you have any questions.
- avinassh 12y ago
  was the first job also remote? if yes, how difficult was it to get it? and how difficult it was to get current job?
hanley 12y ago
From firsthand experience, I would strongly suggest not working remotely as a new grad. I had a lot of experience before and during college, and then just happened to fall into a remote job with a company that is completely remote when I graduated this past spring. I was intrigued by the idea of having no commute and working from home/wherever, but I'm finding that I don't absorb as much information being remote as I have in my previous jobs. Work-related communication is great because my company works hard at that, but it's all the other stuff that I don't get when I'm not sitting near other developers - stuff like best practices, new technologies worth trying, active brainstorming, and development tools. Earlier this week my coworker mentioned a browser add-on he'd been using for 6 months that is incredibly useful to our job and I had never heard of it; I think if we were working in the same location then that tool would have been mentioned a lot sooner and everyone on the team would have been using it 6 months ago. The ultimate goal as a fresh grad is to learn and absorb as much information as possible, as quickly as possible, and I think that working remotely hinders that. Also as others have suggested, it's important to find a mentor(s) when you're a new grad, and that's harder to do as a remote worker.

by eertami 12y ago

wiremine 12y ago

> Would you suggest this even for new grads looking for a first job? Nope. I've been a full-time remote worker for 6.5 years, and 1/2 time (2 days a week) for 4 years before that. During that time I've managed and hired remote workers. The reality is remote work is not for everyone, and I think that is even more so for new grads. There is a lot of mentoring that happens early in someone's career, and that is difficult to pick up in a remote environment. I think over time the need for having that on-site mentoring decreases, but it's critical in the first 12 to 24 months.

odonnellryan 12y ago
I think developers forget sometimes - and I really don't mean this in a negative way - that they are people too, not machines. People generally need some level of human contact, in person, to grow and form strong bonds with each other. I think remote works great, but it only works if you get to see some people you work with sometimes. The money the company saves can be put into a fund to bring the team together a few times a year for team building/vacation. The details (optional? mandatory? where? who?) are per company, but I think companies should start thinking differently. Remote all the time, in person when needed. Not in person all the time, and remote during extremes (car breaks, weather, etc.)
- normloman 12y ago
  My problem with a company vacation: The people I work with are not my friends. I despise most of them. This is true for every place I've worked. It's probably true for most people here. You don't chose your co-workers. And now you're forcing me to take my vacation with these people, who I put up with every day at work. You may be puzzled reading this. "But my company is like a family." Some companies are really like this; everyone's your friend. But if every company was like this, we wouldn't have shows like "The Office." It's also hard to expect everyone to go on a vacation. What if your kid has to go to school? What if your spouse has a job, and has to stay home. Can you ask people to leave their family behind for a week so they can bond with their co-workers? Then you might say "fine, just make the vacation optional." You won't be fired for not going, but when it's time for performance reviews, who's gonna have "not a team player" on their report? The one person who didn't attend. But you make a point. We're people. We need contact. My solution? Work at a co-working space a few times a week. Work out of a library or cafe every so often. And get everyone on your team to use video conferencing. And if your team lives in a close vicinity, it's totally reasonable to schedule some day trips.
  - odonnellryan 12y ago
    I don't think that is healthy at all. Let's say you have a favorite person that you really enjoy being with all the time, at most you'll probably manage to get 50 hrs a week in with them. Way less if you do any of the following (and more) alone: exercise, study, side projects, home renovations, reading, movies, etc.. Most people spend at least 30 hours a week with their coworkers. 3/5 ratio is insane for people you hate! How do you think that shapes your attitude, personality, etc.. and how does that impact your happiness? My company is absolutely not like a family, it is very much so work. But, if I hated everyone, or even most of them, it wouldn't work out! Company vacations (or whatever you want to call them) are silly (IMO) if you're already seeing those people 30+ hours a week. I don't think it is very silly if you're seeing them < 8 hrs a week.
    - normloman 12y ago
      You're not picking up on my hyperbole. I don't actively hate everyone around me. I'm saying there's no guarantee the people I work with are gonna be the same people I'd hag out with outside of work. I feel I have to say this, because I notice so many articles and comments on HN consisting of founders calling their start-up a family and stressing culture fit. This is a bad idea for a host of reasons. In most workplaces, you aren't obligated to like your coworkers. Just to tolerate them, and work as a team. Making me go away with them for a week doesn't sound like a "vacation." It sounds like a ton of work. It seems you agree with me on that point, but reckon it's ok for remote workers. That's where we disagree. I don't take jobs that require me to travel, and that wouldn't change for remote work. I should point out that even if you tolerate most of your coworkers, there's probably one you really hate. Maybe they have an annoying laugh, microwave fish in the break room, and constantly make bad jokes. Imagine taking a vacation with that person! But hey, part of life is learning to work with people who are different than you. I hope we don't lose that as people shift into remote working situations.
  - coob 12y ago
    > I despise most of them Doesn't sound like the problem is with your colleagues.
avinassh 12y ago
would recommend remote working for someone who has 2 years+ experience?
- wiremine 12y ago
  Yes, I think that's a reasonable time to start thinking about working remotely, depending on what sort of career path you're looking for. I think it's difficult to do management for the first time in a remote environment, although it isn't impossible. If you want to freelance, remote work is ideal. And, if you can freelance for a 100% distributed company, you almost fit right into the culture.

sergiotapia 12y ago

Absolutely not. You gain vital experience working in a real office with real more experienced people. Don't forgot about that benefit when you're just starting out.

m_t 12y ago

If your going to commute, make the most of it. I've been working in Montréal for 2 years, walking 10 minutes to the office. It's only a hard commute when it's freezing/snowing. Now that I'm back in a big city and I have to take the subway for 45 minutes twice a day, I'm not depressed. Sure, I miss enjoying the sun once in a while, but at least now I have time to read.

ryanSrich 12y ago

It's going to be tough getting a remote job as a new grad. Not impossible, but tough. If I could give any advice it would be to get a decent location-dictated job first. I worked for a little less than one year at my first job before jumping ship and finding my first (and current) remote job. PM me if you have any questions.

avinassh 12y ago
was the first job also remote? if yes, how difficult was it to get it? and how difficult it was to get current job?

hanley 12y ago

From firsthand experience, I would strongly suggest not working remotely as a new grad. I had a lot of experience before and during college, and then just happened to fall into a remote job with a company that is completely remote when I graduated this past spring. I was intrigued by the idea of having no commute and working from home/wherever, but I'm finding that I don't absorb as much information being remote as I have in my previous jobs. Work-related communication is great because my company works hard at that, but it's all the other stuff that I don't get when I'm not sitting near other developers - stuff like best practices, new technologies worth trying, active brainstorming, and development tools. Earlier this week my coworker mentioned a browser add-on he'd been using for 6 months that is incredibly useful to our job and I had never heard of it; I think if we were working in the same location then that tool would have been mentioned a lot sooner and everyone on the team would have been using it 6 months ago. The ultimate goal as a fresh grad is to learn and absorb as much information as possible, as quickly as possible, and I think that working remotely hinders that. Also as others have suggested, it's important to find a mentor(s) when you're a new grad, and that's harder to do as a remote worker.