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If indeed that's the case, then welcome to the era of the quick hack. From the nanosecond the user hits the power button on their little box, and the BIOS load

If indeed that's the case, then welcome to the era of the quick hack. From the nanosecond the user hits the power button on their little box, and the BIOS loads 0x7c00 and executes it (loosely defined, frameworks call your code), we're in framework world. You want your browser loaded? Better hope that the user clicks it, and the OS calls your code, because otherwise you're malware (and you were still loaded by the OS). Want users to visit your site? Unless you're a virus, you're gonna have to wait for their browser to navigate there. Another framework. The idea that frameworks are not for writing software to me is just ridiculous. It's the only way useful modern software can be written. Unless of course you yourself have created the hardware, OS, and layer upon layer of userland software that you're going to rely upon, you really need to acknowledge that your code is 99% dependent upon frameworks.

forgottenpass 12y ago
loosely defined, frameworks call your code You're interpreting the poster by pulling the definition past the breaking point of any utility to this conversation. Either air your grievances with the word "framework", or try and read what the author meant.
- andrewstuart2 12y ago
  Alright, to be more strict, let me quote the definition per Wikipedia: > In computer programming, a software framework is an abstraction in which software providing generic functionality can be selectively changed by additional user-written code, thus providing application-specific software. [1] I fail to see how I'm stretching this definition at all, especially if you read further into the wikipedia article. I believe it's critical that I acknowledge when I'm wrong, lest I stay stagnant in my understanding, but I don't think I'm wrong here, unless somebody wants to point out a specific area. Userland software customizes and reuses default behavior of the OS for application-specific purposes. Web pages customize and reuse default behavior defined by the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript specifications. Same goes for Operating Systems on top of the BIOS and on top of the hardware itself. Frameworks are useful, basically unavoidable, and critical to take the time to understand if we're going to be effective at any level, be it consuming them or providing them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework
Silhouette 12y ago
Unless of course you yourself have created the hardware, OS, and layer upon layer of userland software that you're going to rely upon, you really need to acknowledge that your code is 99% dependent upon frameworks. On the contrary, if the only connection between my code and the kind of "framework" you're describing is the entry point, my code is 99% not dependent upon frameworks. I am free to structure the remainder however I wish and to incorporate libraries on my terms wherever reusing their code is helpful. Even if those libraries might encapsulate some functionality that calls back to some OS API, they do so when I want to use that functionality, not when the OS requires me to make that API call. So for practical purposes I don't think your analogy between system/platform software and frameworks holds at all.
userbinator 12y ago
I'd say BIOS is more like a library than a framework - apart from initialisation/POST it stays out of the way until you call it. EFI, on the other hand, is quite framework-ish.

forgottenpass 12y ago

loosely defined, frameworks call your code You're interpreting the poster by pulling the definition past the breaking point of any utility to this conversation. Either air your grievances with the word "framework", or try and read what the author meant.

andrewstuart2 12y ago
Alright, to be more strict, let me quote the definition per Wikipedia: > In computer programming, a software framework is an abstraction in which software providing generic functionality can be selectively changed by additional user-written code, thus providing application-specific software. [1] I fail to see how I'm stretching this definition at all, especially if you read further into the wikipedia article. I believe it's critical that I acknowledge when I'm wrong, lest I stay stagnant in my understanding, but I don't think I'm wrong here, unless somebody wants to point out a specific area. Userland software customizes and reuses default behavior of the OS for application-specific purposes. Web pages customize and reuse default behavior defined by the HTML, CSS, and JavaScript specifications. Same goes for Operating Systems on top of the BIOS and on top of the hardware itself. Frameworks are useful, basically unavoidable, and critical to take the time to understand if we're going to be effective at any level, be it consuming them or providing them. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework

Silhouette 12y ago

Unless of course you yourself have created the hardware, OS, and layer upon layer of userland software that you're going to rely upon, you really need to acknowledge that your code is 99% dependent upon frameworks. On the contrary, if the only connection between my code and the kind of "framework" you're describing is the entry point, my code is 99% not dependent upon frameworks. I am free to structure the remainder however I wish and to incorporate libraries on my terms wherever reusing their code is helpful. Even if those libraries might encapsulate some functionality that calls back to some OS API, they do so when I want to use that functionality, not when the OS requires me to make that API call. So for practical purposes I don't think your analogy between system/platform software and frameworks holds at all.

userbinator 12y ago

I'd say BIOS is more like a library than a framework - apart from initialisation/POST it stays out of the way until you call it. EFI, on the other hand, is quite framework-ish.