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> Your card is irrelevant. My card is very relevant. If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the n

by tribaal 12y ago

> Your card is irrelevant. My card is very relevant. If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come. If someone steals my bitcoins, it means they have a copy of my private key, and there is nothing I can do about it. Zich. Nada. Transaction fees pay for this insurance (among other things, but still).

leni536 12y ago
You can have multiple wallets though. You can have a really secured wallet, maybe signed with a smart card (is it possible? If yes then it's pretty much impossible to steal, unless someone steals it physically.) and have a less secure wallet on your smartphone. Your smartphone plays the role of a "regular wallet" and you only have minimal amounts on it (like what you need for daily purchases).
- tribaal 12y ago
  That's where my original comment of "I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal" comes from :) I don't think the benefits of bitcoin outweight having to maintain (multiple) private key's security.
- hueving 12y ago
  And what happens when you lose said wallet?
  - vacri 12y ago
    Or the smartcard develops a hardware fault?
    - leni536 12y ago
      Well I'm a bit late on the questions but here is my suggestion: For the really secure wallet you program two (or more) cards with the same key in case one of them is lost or craps itself (then throw away the private key). They are protected by a PIN code so they brick themselves after 3 subsequent wrong tries. If you lose one of the cards then you get two new cards, program them with identical private keys (clearly it is different than the previous one) then transfer all of your money to the new wallet. It's really hard to be your own bank, but it is possible. The beauty of bitcoin that you don't have to trust any third party, but it's really hard manage properly. I would be surprised if anybody used this scheme, I don't have any bitcoins either. If I jump into the bitcoin business I'm sure I will adopt this scheme.
- kijin 12y ago
  Sure, but that takes a considerable amount of time and mental energy to set up and maintain. If possible, most people would just outsource the whole operation to some third party so that they can forget about it and get on with their lives. Of course, the third party would charge a fee for the convenience that they offers to their customers... ...and that's how you get a bank.
dingaling 12y ago
> If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come. Unfortunately this is no longer the case in Europe with cards activated under 'Verified by Visa' ( and presumably the Mastercard equivalent ). If an VbV card is used and passes authentication then it is assumed that the cardholder authorised the transaction and they are liable.
- tribaal 12y ago
  Ah, sure, if they use my card with the chip and PIN then I'm liable. Same if an online purchase is validated by 3dsecure, since that would mean that they somehow got my password on top of the physical card and personal details.

by tribaal 12y ago

leni536 12y ago

You can have multiple wallets though. You can have a really secured wallet, maybe signed with a smart card (is it possible? If yes then it's pretty much impossible to steal, unless someone steals it physically.) and have a less secure wallet on your smartphone. Your smartphone plays the role of a "regular wallet" and you only have minimal amounts on it (like what you need for daily purchases).

tribaal 12y ago
That's where my original comment of "I don't see adoption becoming anything more than anecdotal" comes from :) I don't think the benefits of bitcoin outweight having to maintain (multiple) private key's security.
hueving 12y ago
And what happens when you lose said wallet?
- vacri 12y ago
  Or the smartcard develops a hardware fault?
  - leni536 12y ago
    Well I'm a bit late on the questions but here is my suggestion: For the really secure wallet you program two (or more) cards with the same key in case one of them is lost or craps itself (then throw away the private key). They are protected by a PIN code so they brick themselves after 3 subsequent wrong tries. If you lose one of the cards then you get two new cards, program them with identical private keys (clearly it is different than the previous one) then transfer all of your money to the new wallet. It's really hard to be your own bank, but it is possible. The beauty of bitcoin that you don't have to trust any third party, but it's really hard manage properly. I would be surprised if anybody used this scheme, I don't have any bitcoins either. If I jump into the bitcoin business I'm sure I will adopt this scheme.
kijin 12y ago
Sure, but that takes a considerable amount of time and mental energy to set up and maintain. If possible, most people would just outsource the whole operation to some third party so that they can forget about it and get on with their lives. Of course, the third party would charge a fee for the convenience that they offers to their customers... ...and that's how you get a bank.

dingaling 12y ago

> If someone steals it, they can use it but it doesn't impact me in any way except having to wait for the new card to come. Unfortunately this is no longer the case in Europe with cards activated under 'Verified by Visa' ( and presumably the Mastercard equivalent ). If an VbV card is used and passes authentication then it is assumed that the cardholder authorised the transaction and they are liable.

tribaal 12y ago
Ah, sure, if they use my card with the chip and PIN then I'm liable. Same if an online purchase is validated by 3dsecure, since that would mean that they somehow got my password on top of the physical card and personal details.