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Lost me at giving Henry Ford credit for the 40-hour workweek. Do you even read history? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day http://en.wikipedia.org/wik

Lost me at giving Henry Ford credit for the 40-hour workweek. Do you even read history? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

rifung 12y ago
As far as I can tell, the link doesn't contradict what the post said. The article is US centric, and the link you gave supports their claim that Ford was the company which popularized the 40 hour work week. "By 1905, the eight-hour day was widely installed in the printing trades – see International Typographical Union (section) – but the vast majority of Americans worked 12-14 hour days. On January 5, 1914, the Ford Motor Company took the radical step of doubling pay to $5 a day and cut shifts from nine hours to eight, moves that were not popular with rival companies, although seeing the increase in Ford's productivity, and a significant increase in profit margin (from $30 million to $60 million in two years), most soon followed suit."
- zenogais 12y ago
  Quote from the article: "Ironically, it was only when Henry Ford took the wildly controversial step of shuttering his automobile manufacturing factories on Saturday and cutting daily work hours from the then-standard 12 to 8 that workers began not only enjoying leisure time at home, but became more efficient and productive at work." Now if we re-read the Wikipedia article we see that, in fact, Ford was not the decisive factor but that there were a series of labor struggles before and after Ford's decision mostly outside the automotive industry that eventually won legislative support that truly universalized the 40-hour workweek. Thus Ford's role is minor, but perhaps decisive for the automotive industry only. Very different from the strong and historically warped claim made above.
  - rifung 12y ago
    My take from the article was that Ford popularized the idea. I definitely don't know enough about history to make a case either way, but at the very least the wikipedia article did not contradict it. It doesn't seem too far fetched to me that Ford's cutting daily work hours would have made a huge impact if only because it brought the idea to the public's eyes. At the very least it wouldn't surprise me if only because it wouldn't be the first time I read about Ford's influence on setting trends for working.
    - zenogais 12y ago
      I get what you were trying to say, for sure, but the fact of the matter is that you weren't actually familiar with the history, as you now admit, and ignored the entirety of the Wikipedia article except for a single sentence in order to draw support for the conclusion you wanted validated. Now you're falling back on pure conjecture to support your conclusion. The Wikipedia article does contradict the original statement, if you still don't see how then I can't really help you except to suggest you perhaps review in detail.
- wavefunction 12y ago
  The eight-hour workday is one of the fruits of the struggles of labor unions before Ford Motors even got started. To then turn around and assign its introduction to a capitalist is ridiculous on its face but the sort of pro-corporate propaganda that is all too common in US culture.
  - akgerber 12y ago
    Capitalists love the 8-hour day, and would never murder children over it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_View_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_View_Massacre
  - ashark 12y ago
    Judging from the rest of the article, which argues for more time off because it'll make workers more productive, it seems to be aimed precisely at capitalists. In that context some ego-stroking historical revisionism shouldn't be surprising. If it's in service of bringing about better worker rights in the US it's... I dunno, justified, I guess? Ends, means, and all that. Still gross.

Lost me at giving Henry Ford credit for the 40-hour workweek. Do you even read history? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

rifung 12y ago

As far as I can tell, the link doesn't contradict what the post said. The article is US centric, and the link you gave supports their claim that Ford was the company which popularized the 40 hour work week. "By 1905, the eight-hour day was widely installed in the printing trades – see International Typographical Union (section) – but the vast majority of Americans worked 12-14 hour days. On January 5, 1914, the Ford Motor Company took the radical step of doubling pay to $5 a day and cut shifts from nine hours to eight, moves that were not popular with rival companies, although seeing the increase in Ford's productivity, and a significant increase in profit margin (from $30 million to $60 million in two years), most soon followed suit."

zenogais 12y ago
Quote from the article: "Ironically, it was only when Henry Ford took the wildly controversial step of shuttering his automobile manufacturing factories on Saturday and cutting daily work hours from the then-standard 12 to 8 that workers began not only enjoying leisure time at home, but became more efficient and productive at work." Now if we re-read the Wikipedia article we see that, in fact, Ford was not the decisive factor but that there were a series of labor struggles before and after Ford's decision mostly outside the automotive industry that eventually won legislative support that truly universalized the 40-hour workweek. Thus Ford's role is minor, but perhaps decisive for the automotive industry only. Very different from the strong and historically warped claim made above.
- rifung 12y ago
  My take from the article was that Ford popularized the idea. I definitely don't know enough about history to make a case either way, but at the very least the wikipedia article did not contradict it. It doesn't seem too far fetched to me that Ford's cutting daily work hours would have made a huge impact if only because it brought the idea to the public's eyes. At the very least it wouldn't surprise me if only because it wouldn't be the first time I read about Ford's influence on setting trends for working.
  - zenogais 12y ago
    I get what you were trying to say, for sure, but the fact of the matter is that you weren't actually familiar with the history, as you now admit, and ignored the entirety of the Wikipedia article except for a single sentence in order to draw support for the conclusion you wanted validated. Now you're falling back on pure conjecture to support your conclusion. The Wikipedia article does contradict the original statement, if you still don't see how then I can't really help you except to suggest you perhaps review in detail.
wavefunction 12y ago
The eight-hour workday is one of the fruits of the struggles of labor unions before Ford Motors even got started. To then turn around and assign its introduction to a capitalist is ridiculous on its face but the sort of pro-corporate propaganda that is all too common in US culture.
- akgerber 12y ago
  Capitalists love the 8-hour day, and would never murder children over it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_View_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_View_Massacre
- ashark 12y ago
  Judging from the rest of the article, which argues for more time off because it'll make workers more productive, it seems to be aimed precisely at capitalists. In that context some ego-stroking historical revisionism shouldn't be surprising. If it's in service of bringing about better worker rights in the US it's... I dunno, justified, I guess? Ends, means, and all that. Still gross.