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I saw the best minds of my generation wasted by coding everything in javascript

by larme 12y ago

1971genocide 12y ago
Better than the last batch where everything was done in Java.
- ocharles 12y ago
  Is it though? At least Java has reasonably sensible semantics and something resembling a type system. Dynamically typed languages have their place, but for me - that place is not absolutely everywhere.
- nilved 12y ago
  Java is a considerably better language than JavaScript. "Considerably" should be emphasized.
andrewstuart2 12y ago
It's unfortunate that you see javascript, or that any engineer would see any language, that way. JavaScript is an incredibly expressive language and has a very real and beneficial place alongside strongly-typed and compiled languages. We ought to recognize the use cases, as much as humanly possible, for all languages or frameworks or platforms (etc.) and simply use the best tools for any given job.
- Argorak 12y ago
  > We ought to recognize the use cases, as much as humanly possible, for all languages or frameworks or platforms (etc.) and simply use the best tools for any given job. Well, isn't that a bit of the point the parent makes? It is not necessarily the best tool for _everything_. (Not criticizing the project, many package managers are written in some scripting language)
- larme 12y ago
  It has its good part (though only 176 pages), it has its bad part, just like every other language. But let's be honest, the primary reason that javascript succeeds is that it's a major part of web. I'm not against using it for web, but using it everywhere where other (possibly superior) solutions exist is a waste IMHO.
- lojack 12y ago
  > We ought to recognize the use cases, as much as humanly possible, for all languages or frameworks or platforms I wouldn't exactly consider Operating Systems to be one of those use cases for Javascript. The flip side of knowing the use cases is knowing the limitations and understanding that "everything" isn't exactly a valid use case, which I believe is what larme was trying to say.
  - andrewstuart2 12y ago
    I do see your point, and agree there. I initially (perhaps mistakenly) read larme's comment as "everything coded in javascript is a waste." I will say, though, that exploring the possibilities for a language is not a waste of time or mind. From stretching both mind and tool to do new things, new insight can be gained or patterns formed that might never have been considered. Additionally, nobody ever said an OS has to be the best at everything either. It could be that a javascript-based OS, while perhaps not as efficient at generating machine code, may end up being much more efficient for humans. This would certainly be a win for many tasks such as management that should be optimized for human use.
    - lojack 12y ago
      I agree. Didn't mean to say that this project wasn't interesting or a waste of time or anything like that -- it definitely has its own merits.
jmcomets 12y ago
I agree. There is too much hype going on with JavaScript. There are a few great features in JavaScript (seamless closures, asynchronism, etc). However, JavaScript has a few flaws as of today, and even though it's one of the most widely used out there, that doesn't mean it'll work for anything. There are other languages out there! They may not be garbage-collected, the syntax may not be straightforward, you may need to declare your functions and define interfaces, but they also have great features when you learn to use them. Any programmer should be able to understand basic C programs and reason with pointers, know how to write simple Java classes (without an IDE) and most of all, use UNIX tools (echo/cat/grep/less at least, pipes being a plus, sed/awk/cut/diff would be perfect). These are basic skills which are taught in CS courses, but many fail to have one of these, yet blabber about Node.js all the time.

I saw the best minds of my generation wasted by coding everything in javascript

by larme 12y ago

I saw the best minds of my generation wasted by coding everything in javascript

1971genocide 12y ago

Better than the last batch where everything was done in Java.

ocharles 12y ago
Is it though? At least Java has reasonably sensible semantics and something resembling a type system. Dynamically typed languages have their place, but for me - that place is not absolutely everywhere.
nilved 12y ago
Java is a considerably better language than JavaScript. "Considerably" should be emphasized.

andrewstuart2 12y ago

It's unfortunate that you see javascript, or that any engineer would see any language, that way. JavaScript is an incredibly expressive language and has a very real and beneficial place alongside strongly-typed and compiled languages. We ought to recognize the use cases, as much as humanly possible, for all languages or frameworks or platforms (etc.) and simply use the best tools for any given job.

Argorak 12y ago
> We ought to recognize the use cases, as much as humanly possible, for all languages or frameworks or platforms (etc.) and simply use the best tools for any given job. Well, isn't that a bit of the point the parent makes? It is not necessarily the best tool for _everything_. (Not criticizing the project, many package managers are written in some scripting language)
larme 12y ago
It has its good part (though only 176 pages), it has its bad part, just like every other language. But let's be honest, the primary reason that javascript succeeds is that it's a major part of web. I'm not against using it for web, but using it everywhere where other (possibly superior) solutions exist is a waste IMHO.
lojack 12y ago
> We ought to recognize the use cases, as much as humanly possible, for all languages or frameworks or platforms I wouldn't exactly consider Operating Systems to be one of those use cases for Javascript. The flip side of knowing the use cases is knowing the limitations and understanding that "everything" isn't exactly a valid use case, which I believe is what larme was trying to say.
- andrewstuart2 12y ago
  I do see your point, and agree there. I initially (perhaps mistakenly) read larme's comment as "everything coded in javascript is a waste." I will say, though, that exploring the possibilities for a language is not a waste of time or mind. From stretching both mind and tool to do new things, new insight can be gained or patterns formed that might never have been considered. Additionally, nobody ever said an OS has to be the best at everything either. It could be that a javascript-based OS, while perhaps not as efficient at generating machine code, may end up being much more efficient for humans. This would certainly be a win for many tasks such as management that should be optimized for human use.
  - lojack 12y ago
    I agree. Didn't mean to say that this project wasn't interesting or a waste of time or anything like that -- it definitely has its own merits.

jmcomets 12y ago

I agree. There is too much hype going on with JavaScript. There are a few great features in JavaScript (seamless closures, asynchronism, etc). However, JavaScript has a few flaws as of today, and even though it's one of the most widely used out there, that doesn't mean it'll work for anything. There are other languages out there! They may not be garbage-collected, the syntax may not be straightforward, you may need to declare your functions and define interfaces, but they also have great features when you learn to use them. Any programmer should be able to understand basic C programs and reason with pointers, know how to write simple Java classes (without an IDE) and most of all, use UNIX tools (echo/cat/grep/less at least, pipes being a plus, sed/awk/cut/diff would be perfect). These are basic skills which are taught in CS courses, but many fail to have one of these, yet blabber about Node.js all the time.