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I can't down vote this particular comment of yours as it is a reply to me, but wouldn't if I could. But I've no problem if others wish to. Or if they want to up

by corin_ 12y ago

I can't down vote this particular comment of yours as it is a reply to me, but wouldn't if I could. But I've no problem if others wish to. Or if they want to up vote you, also fine by me. Other than caring about other users' scores, which I don't, I see no reason a user's view of "this comment is too high" is any less valid than the opposite. And bringing in the concept of "groupthink".. Surely showing us the up vote has the exact same affect in that regard?

unclebucknasty 12y ago
>And bringing in the concept of "groupthink".. Surely showing us the up vote has the exact same affect in that regard? It's not the same. Firstly, and most obviously, upvotes cannot lead to a comment being grayed out or barely legible and, thus, overlooked. Secondly, for those who do actually care about Magic Karma Beans for some reason, venturing from the herd runs the risk of earning downvotes, since they are used to express mere disagreement. If there was no risk of that "loss", then those people would be more willing to take a chance on expressing alternative or unpopular views. So, there's a downside to differing with the group sentiment and downvotes explicitly encourage people to post more when their views are in alignment with the group.
- corin_ 12y ago
  Fair point, but I'd suggest if you dislike the system it would be better to change how downvoted comments are formatted rather than prevent downvoting. The minimum karma requirement already slightly limits downvoting, perhaps it should more? To users worried about losing karma I say... grow up. I might be worried about people thinking me stupid, or something else about me, but not the number at the top right. And overall I think allowing downvotes is better than not. But this is subjective, neither of us has to be right or wrong. If you feel really strongly you could drop a mail to hn@ycombinator.com and give them reasoned argument and maybe some day they'll change more towards you're liking. I feel strongly enough to use time discussing with you, but not enough to contact HN if downvotes were disabled, personally.
  - unclebucknasty 12y ago
    >To users worried about losing karma I say... grow up. So, you agree with me, in part, that downvoting is childish. Because downvotes are obviously a big part of that number at the top right, and the very notion that commenters would be "punished" and lose a gold-star sticker over a comment (vs. just submerging the comment) is what I find most childish. So, perhaps I should be more nuanced: Downvotes are childish primarily when it comes to the karma score; whereas they are more ineffectual and promote groupthink when it comes to actual discussion. So, actually, it looks like we are somewhat in agrement on both fronts. But, like you, I don't think I actually care enough to send an email, nor do I thik it would matter if I did.

by corin_ 12y ago

unclebucknasty 12y ago

>And bringing in the concept of "groupthink".. Surely showing us the up vote has the exact same affect in that regard? It's not the same. Firstly, and most obviously, upvotes cannot lead to a comment being grayed out or barely legible and, thus, overlooked. Secondly, for those who do actually care about Magic Karma Beans for some reason, venturing from the herd runs the risk of earning downvotes, since they are used to express mere disagreement. If there was no risk of that "loss", then those people would be more willing to take a chance on expressing alternative or unpopular views. So, there's a downside to differing with the group sentiment and downvotes explicitly encourage people to post more when their views are in alignment with the group.

corin_ 12y ago
Fair point, but I'd suggest if you dislike the system it would be better to change how downvoted comments are formatted rather than prevent downvoting. The minimum karma requirement already slightly limits downvoting, perhaps it should more? To users worried about losing karma I say... grow up. I might be worried about people thinking me stupid, or something else about me, but not the number at the top right. And overall I think allowing downvotes is better than not. But this is subjective, neither of us has to be right or wrong. If you feel really strongly you could drop a mail to hn@ycombinator.com and give them reasoned argument and maybe some day they'll change more towards you're liking. I feel strongly enough to use time discussing with you, but not enough to contact HN if downvotes were disabled, personally.
- unclebucknasty 12y ago
  >To users worried about losing karma I say... grow up. So, you agree with me, in part, that downvoting is childish. Because downvotes are obviously a big part of that number at the top right, and the very notion that commenters would be "punished" and lose a gold-star sticker over a comment (vs. just submerging the comment) is what I find most childish. So, perhaps I should be more nuanced: Downvotes are childish primarily when it comes to the karma score; whereas they are more ineffectual and promote groupthink when it comes to actual discussion. So, actually, it looks like we are somewhat in agrement on both fronts. But, like you, I don't think I actually care enough to send an email, nor do I thik it would matter if I did.