4 ms·

I'd like to point out that Far East cultures (China and Japan) do not have the same religious instincts. For them an almighty human-like God who wrote a sacred

by gbog 12y ago

I'd like to point out that Far East cultures (China and Japan) do not have the same religious instincts. For them an almighty human-like God who wrote a sacred book is not conceivable. I don't think they can understand what religion and faith represent in the lives of Christian, Jews and Muslims. And unsurprisingly, religious wars have been quite marginal in this part of the world. One could also trace this important cultural difference to the figure of Confucius, who was not atheist, but refused to speak about what he called the Sky.

JonnieCache 12y ago
A very good point. I would argue that these cultures are simply expressing these religious instincts in ways that don't look like abrahamic religions, in the same way that football or rock music don't look like abrahamic religions either. Also, once you blur out the technical theological details, is Confucius not effectively treated as a prophet? (This is a genuine question.)
- jpgvm 12y ago
  Not as a prophet, he wasn't said to have spoken the words of a divine force/entity.
  - JonnieCache 12y ago
    Those are theological details.
- gunn 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven suggests some religious thinking
- gbog 12y ago
  Well, for me there is a discontinuity between religion in abrahamic sense and football, rock music, and even buddhism. While the former obviously covers what might be a kind of universal religious instinct, it does much much more. For instance, I don't think believing in God is the same as believing in the existence of ghosts, or in immaterial spirits. It should even be the same verb. A man of faith is not only believing in the existence of God, and that His words are in a Book, he is also his whole life a consequence of this belief. If you really believe in God, you should be working very hard to be a Saint. Every second of your life you are not climbing this path is a misstep. In the Far East religions, you have most pieces of the jigsaw present: mysticism, the Sacred, priests, monks, prayers, meditation, afterlife, etc. But I think the central piece of a unique almighty exclusive God is missing, and then the result is completely different. There is also this theory that the Far East did not have a powerful scientific revolution because of this missing piece: Without a God who created everything, there is less incentive to believe in a unique ordering of things (the Law of physics) and to try to discover it. And no, Confucius is not a prophet, he made no miracles, he did not announce anything. He was just a failed political advisor who became the teacher of a few disciples. However, he proposed a very rational and revolutionary way of life, under the disguise of restoring the ancient Way. He also happen to be (along with Jesus and maybe Mohammad) the man who influenced the most the lives of most other humans.
- polymatter 12y ago
  Confucianism is a religion. No blurring out of technical theological details is required. Confucianism has a holy city, temples where people pray to him, miracles attributed to him, unquestionable holy books and an organization to promote itself. It doesn't lack anything that other religions have so it makes sense to call it a religion.
muraiki 12y ago
I think that the situation is a bit more complicated than you depict. Perhaps monotheism was difficult for Japanese to conceive of, but Shinto and Buddhism have played a large role in Japanese history, including that of violence. Zen and World War 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War Warrior Monks burning down other sects' temples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei Persecution and martyrdom of Christians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_Japan As to where these religious tendencies go in modern Japan, there are a number of things to think about (consider their celebrities are literally called "idols"). Confucius might not have said much about the Sky, but he constantly emphasized the importance of the Rites.
mattmanser 12y ago
They had deification of leaders and ancestor worship. The Japanese did some horrific things in the name of their Emperor, so I don't buy your assertion. You could argue that the Far East are simply religiously backwards, using polytheism instead of monotheism, so your argument actually makes no sense, they simply haven't caught the monotheistic religious bug (yet).

by gbog 12y ago

JonnieCache 12y ago

A very good point. I would argue that these cultures are simply expressing these religious instincts in ways that don't look like abrahamic religions, in the same way that football or rock music don't look like abrahamic religions either. Also, once you blur out the technical theological details, is Confucius not effectively treated as a prophet? (This is a genuine question.)

jpgvm 12y ago
Not as a prophet, he wasn't said to have spoken the words of a divine force/entity.
- JonnieCache 12y ago
  Those are theological details.
gunn 12y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven suggests some religious thinking
gbog 12y ago
Well, for me there is a discontinuity between religion in abrahamic sense and football, rock music, and even buddhism. While the former obviously covers what might be a kind of universal religious instinct, it does much much more. For instance, I don't think believing in God is the same as believing in the existence of ghosts, or in immaterial spirits. It should even be the same verb. A man of faith is not only believing in the existence of God, and that His words are in a Book, he is also his whole life a consequence of this belief. If you really believe in God, you should be working very hard to be a Saint. Every second of your life you are not climbing this path is a misstep. In the Far East religions, you have most pieces of the jigsaw present: mysticism, the Sacred, priests, monks, prayers, meditation, afterlife, etc. But I think the central piece of a unique almighty exclusive God is missing, and then the result is completely different. There is also this theory that the Far East did not have a powerful scientific revolution because of this missing piece: Without a God who created everything, there is less incentive to believe in a unique ordering of things (the Law of physics) and to try to discover it. And no, Confucius is not a prophet, he made no miracles, he did not announce anything. He was just a failed political advisor who became the teacher of a few disciples. However, he proposed a very rational and revolutionary way of life, under the disguise of restoring the ancient Way. He also happen to be (along with Jesus and maybe Mohammad) the man who influenced the most the lives of most other humans.
polymatter 12y ago
Confucianism is a religion. No blurring out of technical theological details is required. Confucianism has a holy city, temples where people pray to him, miracles attributed to him, unquestionable holy books and an organization to promote itself. It doesn't lack anything that other religions have so it makes sense to call it a religion.

muraiki 12y ago

I think that the situation is a bit more complicated than you depict. Perhaps monotheism was difficult for Japanese to conceive of, but Shinto and Buddhism have played a large role in Japanese history, including that of violence. Zen and World War 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_at_War Warrior Monks burning down other sects' temples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C5%8Dhei Persecution and martyrdom of Christians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_Japan As to where these religious tendencies go in modern Japan, there are a number of things to think about (consider their celebrities are literally called "idols"). Confucius might not have said much about the Sky, but he constantly emphasized the importance of the Rites.

mattmanser 12y ago

They had deification of leaders and ancestor worship. The Japanese did some horrific things in the name of their Emperor, so I don't buy your assertion. You could argue that the Far East are simply religiously backwards, using polytheism instead of monotheism, so your argument actually makes no sense, they simply haven't caught the monotheistic religious bug (yet).