6 ms·

I regularly get called by people complaining that their computer no longer works. Pretty much every time it turns out that their machine is loaded with crapware

by weavie 12y ago

I regularly get called by people complaining that their computer no longer works. Pretty much every time it turns out that their machine is loaded with crapware. It amazes me how people just put up with random browser windows popping up and having to search via some random search engine that has been imposed on them. At the minute I just have to put up with spending a few hours removing the worst offenders and then running several different adware removers. It generally keeps them running well for a few months. I would love to set up a VM so whenever things start going wrong they could just delete the VM and start fresh. Currently VMs are a bit too heavy weight, a lot of people struggle with the concept of working in multiple Windows let alone knowing which machine they are actually working in. I am looking forward to Microsoft implementing containers ala Docker. It will be interesting to see what possibilities will be available for making it seamless and quick enough for a computerphobe to browse within a container.

TeMPOraL 12y ago
It amazes me how people just put up with random browser windows popping up and having to search via some random search engine that has been imposed on them. I believe they just feel helpless, they don't know to do - but they are annoyed, because from my experience they'll ask for help the first computer-savvy person they see, even if they don't know them well. Funnily, situation is actually a perfect dating opportunity for introvert geeks like me. I get a ton of requests for help from pretty much every student of non-CS field I talk to for longer thant 5 minutes. Removing their crapware can be a good start of a closer relationship ;).
- uptown 12y ago
  It's always wise to begin all relationships with an open and honest conversation about any viruses each person may have.
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    For some getting to the point of actual conversation might be a difficult thing; fixing someone's computer serves as a good social object.
lucaspiller 12y ago
I feel your pain. Whenever family ask me to look at their computer I spent an hour deleting spyware and such. The worst bit is they do have antivirus and Windows defender, but they do nothing to stop it :/ The common advice to stop it before was "don't use IE". Everyone uses Chrome now, and so that's now where everything installs itself (check the extensions and there is usually something dubious). Google even have a tool to remove this stuff: https://www.google.co.uk/chrome/srt/ https://www.google.co.uk/chrome/srt/
- cnvogel 12y ago
  I had to deinfect a adware infested computer of a colleague recently. In my oppinion, most adware is very eager to include some proper way of uninstalling, just to not be classified as a trojan/virus/... Even if this is completely leaning to persuade the customer NOT TO INSTALL it: "You will loose precious functionality, your computer will get slower, the locusts will invade your country: Are you SURE to deinstall CrapToolbarAdMakeComputerFaster2000? [NO!] [NOT AT ALL!] (yes) [CONTINUE USING ADWARE]" I guess it's done that way so that Microsoft would look like to impair a earnest software business' operation, would they choose to include it in their "evil monopolistic" antivirus software.
  - weavie 12y ago
    It is that 5% that refuse to go away and then reinstall themselves when you finally work out how to get rid of them that takes up 95% of the time.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > I feel your pain. Whenever family ask me to look at their computer I spent an hour deleting spyware and such. The worst bit is they do have antivirus and Windows defender, but they do nothing to stop it :/ Once I installed Linux for my folks, all these problems magically disappeared.
  - weavie 12y ago
    I can't find my InDesign icon... where have you put it?
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
Back in the day I was an intern at an elementary school, and the computers there had a piece of software installed that basically disallowed any change (unless entering a password by an administrator like myself), and if a change did happen it was undone at a reboot. I'm not sure how it worked or even how it's called, but that's another option. I'm sure it didn't keep browser history either though, although I'm sure there's workarounds for that too. Just don't give people administrator accounts in Windows, that way they can't / shouldn't be able to install anything, and definitely not something that can permanently change stuff in a computer.
- thegeomaster 12y ago
  Are you possibly talking about DeepFreeze[1]? My school had it too, IIRC. [1]: http://www.faronics.com/en-uk/products/deep-freeze/enterprise/ http://www.faronics.com/en-uk/products/deep-freeze/enterpris...
  - GFischer 12y ago
    Deep Freeze was a huge help at my school as well.
- weavie 12y ago
  The problem is that is an all or nothing solution. Sometimes they legitimately need to install something.
BSousa 12y ago
Can't you do something similar with Windows Restore points?
- weavie 12y ago
  I seem to recall getting burnt by them a long time ago, so I've never trusted them. Are they stable now?
  - TeMPOraL 12y ago
    They seem to be. I successfully used them a few times to get rid of that annoying kind of malware that tries very hard to not let you uninstall it (includind even automatically killing any open cmd.exe and regedit.exe window).
  - acdha 12y ago
    They're only useful for simple problems – e.g. a user-level compromise or an innocent mistake by non-malware. If anything malicious ever gets admin privileges, you still need to reinstall from scratch. Since you need a real backup solution either way I've always disabled restore points since they're at best redundant.
dingaling 12y ago
Firefox has a very useful setting to block installation of add-ons, which I've taken to setting after installing some of the fundamental, safe add-ons. In about:config, create a boolean value xpinstall.enabled and set false. This does protect against those browser toolbars that people somehow manage to install. However there is apparently a UI feature that prompts to re-enable installation ( though I've never seen this ): https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668999 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668999 It
- Roritharr 12y ago
  That is REALLY useful, thank you!
thirdsun 12y ago
Non-technological people are very bad at distinguishing bad sources from legitimate ones. I see it all the time - "well, the address bar said freemp3converter.com - it looked legit to me..." Now imagine a site or software that tries to look just remotely serious. Normal people often just don't see the difference. Plus, it's pretty normal in Windows world to have all kinds of crap installed - Dell, nVidia & Co. install and autostart their little, unnecessary helpers left and right. I think for many people it's hard to tell if that checkbox from the XYZ App is worse than Dell's.
- simias 12y ago
  It's true, but how can you blame them? Even "reputable" sources like the official Java updater and many others attempt to install crapware. I consider myself reasonably savvy and even I get tricked to install crap on windows if I'm not 100% attentive when installing software. The other day I was setting up a brand new windows machine. I wanted to download chrome so I boot up internet explorer, end up at the bing home page and search for "chrome". I've just tried again just now, here's what I end up with: https://i.imgur.com/1fTyQXI.png https://i.imgur.com/1fTyQXI.png You'll notice the first ad has a green URL pointing to google.com, seems legit enough right? Wrong, if you click it you end up on some other URL. I didn't pay attention to that and actually ended up downloading the installer on that webpage, thankfully I realized something was wrong when the actual setup wizard looked weird. I still ran it though, and with administrator privileges, so I'm basically already dead. This is me, all tech savvy and yet I fucked up with the first thing I attempted to install on a fresh windows. After that I wanted a PDF reader. Adobe being completely crap I googled for alternatives and found many recommendations for "foxit". I download and install it: it tries to install a bunch of third party "cloud" services and prompts you to subscribe to third party services basically everywhere on the UI. I just wanted a bloody PDF reader... That's the state of "free" software on windows in 2015. At that point you just can't blame the user, Microsoft should have done something about that issue at least a decade ago.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    SumatraPDF is an open-source, minimal PDF and epub reader.
code_duck 12y ago
What I find bizarre is how people put up with multiple useless browser toolbars that sometimes take up so much space that you can hardly even see the browser content area.
anonymfus 12y ago
You can install Windows to partition inside VHD file without using virtualization. You can use "Refresh your PC" option in Windows 8+.
cordite 12y ago
I find Conduit on so many computers I get called to touch.. and the person can't even recall their actions to how such things got there.
grkvlt 12y ago
> It amazes me how people just put up with [...] having to search via some random search engine that has been imposed on them Yes, exactly. It's as though your yellow pages phone book had its pages replaced with green paper, the entries were all written in comic sans and all of the entries just gave the same phone number for Dominos Pizza. And yet, you continue to use it to try and look things up, stopping occasionally to phone a friend of yours who works in the dictionary industry to complain, and he tells you to sell your house and move to a different street, so that you will get a new copy of the yellow pages delivered. Of course that would never happen, so why do we put up with it here?
- grkvlt 12y ago
  I expect it's down to a 'computers do inexplicable things all the time that I will never understand, so i better just put up with it or something worse might happen' mentality, which we (as IT professionals) can do something about. Computers should be as obvious, understandable and predictable as physical objects.

by weavie 12y ago

TeMPOraL 12y ago

It amazes me how people just put up with random browser windows popping up and having to search via some random search engine that has been imposed on them. I believe they just feel helpless, they don't know to do - but they are annoyed, because from my experience they'll ask for help the first computer-savvy person they see, even if they don't know them well. Funnily, situation is actually a perfect dating opportunity for introvert geeks like me. I get a ton of requests for help from pretty much every student of non-CS field I talk to for longer thant 5 minutes. Removing their crapware can be a good start of a closer relationship ;).

uptown 12y ago
It's always wise to begin all relationships with an open and honest conversation about any viruses each person may have.
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  For some getting to the point of actual conversation might be a difficult thing; fixing someone's computer serves as a good social object.

lucaspiller 12y ago

I feel your pain. Whenever family ask me to look at their computer I spent an hour deleting spyware and such. The worst bit is they do have antivirus and Windows defender, but they do nothing to stop it :/ The common advice to stop it before was "don't use IE". Everyone uses Chrome now, and so that's now where everything installs itself (check the extensions and there is usually something dubious). Google even have a tool to remove this stuff: https://www.google.co.uk/chrome/srt/ https://www.google.co.uk/chrome/srt/

cnvogel 12y ago
I had to deinfect a adware infested computer of a colleague recently. In my oppinion, most adware is very eager to include some proper way of uninstalling, just to not be classified as a trojan/virus/... Even if this is completely leaning to persuade the customer NOT TO INSTALL it: "You will loose precious functionality, your computer will get slower, the locusts will invade your country: Are you SURE to deinstall CrapToolbarAdMakeComputerFaster2000? [NO!] [NOT AT ALL!] (yes) [CONTINUE USING ADWARE]" I guess it's done that way so that Microsoft would look like to impair a earnest software business' operation, would they choose to include it in their "evil monopolistic" antivirus software.
- weavie 12y ago
  It is that 5% that refuse to go away and then reinstall themselves when you finally work out how to get rid of them that takes up 95% of the time.
ekianjo 12y ago
> I feel your pain. Whenever family ask me to look at their computer I spent an hour deleting spyware and such. The worst bit is they do have antivirus and Windows defender, but they do nothing to stop it :/ Once I installed Linux for my folks, all these problems magically disappeared.
- weavie 12y ago
  I can't find my InDesign icon... where have you put it?

Cthulhu_ 12y ago

Back in the day I was an intern at an elementary school, and the computers there had a piece of software installed that basically disallowed any change (unless entering a password by an administrator like myself), and if a change did happen it was undone at a reboot. I'm not sure how it worked or even how it's called, but that's another option. I'm sure it didn't keep browser history either though, although I'm sure there's workarounds for that too. Just don't give people administrator accounts in Windows, that way they can't / shouldn't be able to install anything, and definitely not something that can permanently change stuff in a computer.

thegeomaster 12y ago
Are you possibly talking about DeepFreeze[1]? My school had it too, IIRC. [1]: http://www.faronics.com/en-uk/products/deep-freeze/enterprise/ http://www.faronics.com/en-uk/products/deep-freeze/enterpris...
- GFischer 12y ago
  Deep Freeze was a huge help at my school as well.
weavie 12y ago
The problem is that is an all or nothing solution. Sometimes they legitimately need to install something.

BSousa 12y ago

Can't you do something similar with Windows Restore points?

weavie 12y ago
I seem to recall getting burnt by them a long time ago, so I've never trusted them. Are they stable now?
- TeMPOraL 12y ago
  They seem to be. I successfully used them a few times to get rid of that annoying kind of malware that tries very hard to not let you uninstall it (includind even automatically killing any open cmd.exe and regedit.exe window).
- acdha 12y ago
  They're only useful for simple problems – e.g. a user-level compromise or an innocent mistake by non-malware. If anything malicious ever gets admin privileges, you still need to reinstall from scratch. Since you need a real backup solution either way I've always disabled restore points since they're at best redundant.

dingaling 12y ago

Firefox has a very useful setting to block installation of add-ons, which I've taken to setting after installing some of the fundamental, safe add-ons. In about:config, create a boolean value xpinstall.enabled and set false. This does protect against those browser toolbars that people somehow manage to install. However there is apparently a UI feature that prompts to re-enable installation ( though I've never seen this ): https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668999 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668999 It

Roritharr 12y ago
That is REALLY useful, thank you!

thirdsun 12y ago

Non-technological people are very bad at distinguishing bad sources from legitimate ones. I see it all the time - "well, the address bar said freemp3converter.com - it looked legit to me..." Now imagine a site or software that tries to look just remotely serious. Normal people often just don't see the difference. Plus, it's pretty normal in Windows world to have all kinds of crap installed - Dell, nVidia & Co. install and autostart their little, unnecessary helpers left and right. I think for many people it's hard to tell if that checkbox from the XYZ App is worse than Dell's.

simias 12y ago
It's true, but how can you blame them? Even "reputable" sources like the official Java updater and many others attempt to install crapware. I consider myself reasonably savvy and even I get tricked to install crap on windows if I'm not 100% attentive when installing software. The other day I was setting up a brand new windows machine. I wanted to download chrome so I boot up internet explorer, end up at the bing home page and search for "chrome". I've just tried again just now, here's what I end up with: https://i.imgur.com/1fTyQXI.png https://i.imgur.com/1fTyQXI.png You'll notice the first ad has a green URL pointing to google.com, seems legit enough right? Wrong, if you click it you end up on some other URL. I didn't pay attention to that and actually ended up downloading the installer on that webpage, thankfully I realized something was wrong when the actual setup wizard looked weird. I still ran it though, and with administrator privileges, so I'm basically already dead. This is me, all tech savvy and yet I fucked up with the first thing I attempted to install on a fresh windows. After that I wanted a PDF reader. Adobe being completely crap I googled for alternatives and found many recommendations for "foxit". I download and install it: it tries to install a bunch of third party "cloud" services and prompts you to subscribe to third party services basically everywhere on the UI. I just wanted a bloody PDF reader... That's the state of "free" software on windows in 2015. At that point you just can't blame the user, Microsoft should have done something about that issue at least a decade ago.
- walterbell 12y ago
  SumatraPDF is an open-source, minimal PDF and epub reader.

code_duck 12y ago

What I find bizarre is how people put up with multiple useless browser toolbars that sometimes take up so much space that you can hardly even see the browser content area.

anonymfus 12y ago

You can install Windows to partition inside VHD file without using virtualization. You can use "Refresh your PC" option in Windows 8+.

cordite 12y ago

I find Conduit on so many computers I get called to touch.. and the person can't even recall their actions to how such things got there.

grkvlt 12y ago

> It amazes me how people just put up with [...] having to search via some random search engine that has been imposed on them Yes, exactly. It's as though your yellow pages phone book had its pages replaced with green paper, the entries were all written in comic sans and all of the entries just gave the same phone number for Dominos Pizza. And yet, you continue to use it to try and look things up, stopping occasionally to phone a friend of yours who works in the dictionary industry to complain, and he tells you to sell your house and move to a different street, so that you will get a new copy of the yellow pages delivered. Of course that would never happen, so why do we put up with it here?

grkvlt 12y ago
I expect it's down to a 'computers do inexplicable things all the time that I will never understand, so i better just put up with it or something worse might happen' mentality, which we (as IT professionals) can do something about. Computers should be as obvious, understandable and predictable as physical objects.