6 ms·

Regular naps are 'key to learning'

158 points by yitchelle 12y ago

minthd 12y ago
Interesting. What about adult learning, do naps help with learning, and by how much?
- jacalata 12y ago
  They seem to: http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201002/take-nap-it-may-boost-your-learning-capacity-among-other-good-things http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201002/tak...
  - minthd 12y ago
    Original paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093247/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093247/ "These effects were specific to episodic learning, with no between-session change expressed in procedural motor-skill learning, or in measures of alertness or reaction time" The memory relevant for developers is mostly procedural, i.e conceptual memory, i believe. So napping might not be useful(or further research needed).
    - vegedor 12y ago
      I'd guess that episodic learning is part of building conceptual memory?
- ivanche 12y ago
  Absolutely! Mandatory reading (very long but VERY worth) "Good sleep, good learning, good life" [1] by Dr Piotr Wozniak [1] http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm
- snowwrestler 12y ago
  The things I've read suggest that for adults adequate sleep is the key, not necessarily when you get it. A person who gets as much sleep as they need at night might not benefit from a nap; whereas a person who does not, would. Babies grow more rapidly than adults, so everything happens on a faster schedule. They eat proportionally more food, and more frequently, excrete proportionally more, sleep longer and more frequently, etc.
thomasfl 12y ago
It's ironic that sleeping at the office is absolutely not accepted, while taking large doses of psychoactive drugs like caffeine and nicotine is even encouraged. If you work with computers, then your brain is your absolutely most important tool. Going away to visit a conference is absolutely no problem. Sleeping for 15 minutes at the desk? Not ok.
- yitchelle 12y ago
  Your observation is probably due to a cultural thing. I know in some Asian countries like Singapore and Malaysia, I regularly see employees taking naps during the afternoon. Probably for about 20 to 30mins, then they wake up, freshen up and get back to it. I have heard some central American countries also have similar practices. Maybe Mexico with their siesta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta).
  - thomasfl 12y ago
    You are right. In scandinavia, where I live, work is seen as almost a religion. It's the same culture in all european protestant countries. These are the same countries that drink the most coffee.
    - yitchelle 12y ago
      > These are the same countries that drink the most coffee. I travel to Sweden a bit and was introduced to the concept of fika. I like it.
  - crpatino 12y ago
    You owe me 12000 hrs of sleep there. At least in large urban areas it is extremely uncommon. Probably if you are a boss with an actual office, but businesses tend to be not at all conductive to that. Traditional office hours were 9-2 and 4-7 a generation ago, in order to allow people to go have lunch with their families, but even then you had to take the commute times into account. Blue collar workers only have one hour for lunch, but the expectation is that it will somehow be provided in situ.
netcan 12y ago
This is about babies, but I think it's interesting how topics somehow relating to productivity and productive envrionements environments usually circle back too complaining about office layouts and culture. Open plan. Naps. Working hours. While it's obviously true that workplaces dictate a lot about how we work. It's also conveniently out of our control. Somebody else's responsibility and fault. If you are power napping 3 days a day, trying standing desks, aggressively experimenting with diet and exercise ideas and otherwise pursuing productivity with cutting edge quirkiness I would sympathies. But, formats people registering the complaint it's the easy somebody-should-do-something. Also : Already someone trying to live well would seem eccentrically abstemious in most of the US. That phenomenon is only going to become more pronounced. You can probably take it as a rule of thumb from now on that if people don't think you're weird, you're living badly. - http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html While pg was actually talking about recent trends making eccentricity a necessity (or really a side effect) of doing things "right," I think it's just an old thing becoming relevant to a new area (avoiding addiction). People genuinely pushing for maximal productivity, creativity and such have always been quirky. "I CAN't WORK HERE" screams the painter. Snappy frustrated geniuses with quirky demands, writers insisting on isolation, a bedsit, drugs, carefully timed and controlled naps. Maximizing is quirky. It's also individual. The benefits of maximizing health, productivity, creativity, or other things can be incredible so the people who do it insist that it's the obviously rational choice. But eccentricity is by definition something we are usually averse to. I hope this comment doesn't read negatively. I am entirely in favor of people wanting to implement some of these things in their life. But, find wheyier you can implement it. Don't waste time lamenting that the world (or your workplace) isn't like that. Accept quirkiness as the price.
- paublyrne 12y ago
  I agree that the onus to improve people's lives should not be solely on external forces. We can be independent enough to figure out ways to - as in this case - get a nap somewhere during the day. It is still valid to point out, though, that the structures of society heavily influence our behaviours. I remember years ago afternoons struggling through the hour after lunch, physically fighting to keep my eyes open in the office. It never occurred to me then that there was a solution other than the coffee station. Some direction from work, and a culture where a nap was encouraged would have helped the younger me a lot. That isn't blame, or complaint. But thinking only of how I can get around my society's lack of awareness of napping is a little individualistic. Why not look to improve the structures as well?
jkot 12y ago
I found that babies needs routine and pattern of 'rituals'. That works miracles (1 year running to bed for a sleep or demanding lunch). Not sure how it translates to adults.
clavalle 12y ago
We have a server room that is almost empty these days. I unabashedly advocate for a cot or a hammock in there. I like to think of sleep as clearing my working memory: the important stuff gets saved and the cruft is cleared and, one hopes, that a bit of subconscious processing takes place. It is so much more effective to sleep for 10 or 20 minutes and come back to a problem fresh than struggle with your brain's garbage collection for several hours.
- saraid216 12y ago
  There was a science thing several months ago about how one of the functions of sleep was to flush toxins from your brain. So you're not wrong?
  - click170 12y ago
    Was it Sleepless In America? If it was, I think it aired again recently. I didn't realize it wasn't new. Highly recommend watching it. Not only does sleep help your brain flush the toxins that are produced as a byproduct of your brain, but cancer can grow twice as fast in tired mice compared to well rested mice. Do yourself a favor and check it out if you haven't seen it.
  - tannerc 12y ago
    Here's the NPR story on that research: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/10/18/236211811/brains-sweep-themselves-clean-of-toxins-during-sleep http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/10/18/236211811/brains-...
rajat2109 12y ago
Does this apply for adults also? May be this is the reason why tech gaint companies like Google have sleeping pods in their offices!
- snoogler 12y ago
  I've worked in three separate Google offices, and never saw someone use a nap pod once. I tend to vary my task depending on the time of day an my energy level, e.g. code in the morning, review other people's CL's and do boring non-coding tasks in the afternoon. I think the focus on napping is more part of HN echo chamber (wish there was a less pejorative word, but it's a real thing) than something most people want to do, since Googlers have every opportunity and never do so.
segmondy 12y ago
I took a nap at work once during my lunch time and I was woken up by the silent cold stares. Never took a nap again. :-(

158 points by yitchelle 12y ago

minthd 12y ago

Interesting. What about adult learning, do naps help with learning, and by how much?

jacalata 12y ago
They seem to: http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201002/take-nap-it-may-boost-your-learning-capacity-among-other-good-things http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201002/tak...
- minthd 12y ago
  Original paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093247/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093247/ "These effects were specific to episodic learning, with no between-session change expressed in procedural motor-skill learning, or in measures of alertness or reaction time" The memory relevant for developers is mostly procedural, i.e conceptual memory, i believe. So napping might not be useful(or further research needed).
  - vegedor 12y ago
    I'd guess that episodic learning is part of building conceptual memory?
ivanche 12y ago
Absolutely! Mandatory reading (very long but VERY worth) "Good sleep, good learning, good life" [1] by Dr Piotr Wozniak [1] http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm
snowwrestler 12y ago
The things I've read suggest that for adults adequate sleep is the key, not necessarily when you get it. A person who gets as much sleep as they need at night might not benefit from a nap; whereas a person who does not, would. Babies grow more rapidly than adults, so everything happens on a faster schedule. They eat proportionally more food, and more frequently, excrete proportionally more, sleep longer and more frequently, etc.

thomasfl 12y ago

It's ironic that sleeping at the office is absolutely not accepted, while taking large doses of psychoactive drugs like caffeine and nicotine is even encouraged. If you work with computers, then your brain is your absolutely most important tool. Going away to visit a conference is absolutely no problem. Sleeping for 15 minutes at the desk? Not ok.

yitchelle 12y ago
Your observation is probably due to a cultural thing. I know in some Asian countries like Singapore and Malaysia, I regularly see employees taking naps during the afternoon. Probably for about 20 to 30mins, then they wake up, freshen up and get back to it. I have heard some central American countries also have similar practices. Maybe Mexico with their siesta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siesta).
- thomasfl 12y ago
  You are right. In scandinavia, where I live, work is seen as almost a religion. It's the same culture in all european protestant countries. These are the same countries that drink the most coffee.
  - yitchelle 12y ago
    > These are the same countries that drink the most coffee. I travel to Sweden a bit and was introduced to the concept of fika. I like it.
- crpatino 12y ago
  You owe me 12000 hrs of sleep there. At least in large urban areas it is extremely uncommon. Probably if you are a boss with an actual office, but businesses tend to be not at all conductive to that. Traditional office hours were 9-2 and 4-7 a generation ago, in order to allow people to go have lunch with their families, but even then you had to take the commute times into account. Blue collar workers only have one hour for lunch, but the expectation is that it will somehow be provided in situ.

netcan 12y ago

This is about babies, but I think it's interesting how topics somehow relating to productivity and productive envrionements environments usually circle back too complaining about office layouts and culture. Open plan. Naps. Working hours. While it's obviously true that workplaces dictate a lot about how we work. It's also conveniently out of our control. Somebody else's responsibility and fault. If you are power napping 3 days a day, trying standing desks, aggressively experimenting with diet and exercise ideas and otherwise pursuing productivity with cutting edge quirkiness I would sympathies. But, formats people registering the complaint it's the easy somebody-should-do-something. Also : Already someone trying to live well would seem eccentrically abstemious in most of the US. That phenomenon is only going to become more pronounced. You can probably take it as a rule of thumb from now on that if people don't think you're weird, you're living badly. - http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html http://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html While pg was actually talking about recent trends making eccentricity a necessity (or really a side effect) of doing things "right," I think it's just an old thing becoming relevant to a new area (avoiding addiction). People genuinely pushing for maximal productivity, creativity and such have always been quirky. "I CAN't WORK HERE" screams the painter. Snappy frustrated geniuses with quirky demands, writers insisting on isolation, a bedsit, drugs, carefully timed and controlled naps. Maximizing is quirky. It's also individual. The benefits of maximizing health, productivity, creativity, or other things can be incredible so the people who do it insist that it's the obviously rational choice. But eccentricity is by definition something we are usually averse to. I hope this comment doesn't read negatively. I am entirely in favor of people wanting to implement some of these things in their life. But, find wheyier you can implement it. Don't waste time lamenting that the world (or your workplace) isn't like that. Accept quirkiness as the price.

paublyrne 12y ago
I agree that the onus to improve people's lives should not be solely on external forces. We can be independent enough to figure out ways to - as in this case - get a nap somewhere during the day. It is still valid to point out, though, that the structures of society heavily influence our behaviours. I remember years ago afternoons struggling through the hour after lunch, physically fighting to keep my eyes open in the office. It never occurred to me then that there was a solution other than the coffee station. Some direction from work, and a culture where a nap was encouraged would have helped the younger me a lot. That isn't blame, or complaint. But thinking only of how I can get around my society's lack of awareness of napping is a little individualistic. Why not look to improve the structures as well?

jkot 12y ago

I found that babies needs routine and pattern of 'rituals'. That works miracles (1 year running to bed for a sleep or demanding lunch). Not sure how it translates to adults.

clavalle 12y ago

We have a server room that is almost empty these days. I unabashedly advocate for a cot or a hammock in there. I like to think of sleep as clearing my working memory: the important stuff gets saved and the cruft is cleared and, one hopes, that a bit of subconscious processing takes place. It is so much more effective to sleep for 10 or 20 minutes and come back to a problem fresh than struggle with your brain's garbage collection for several hours.

saraid216 12y ago
There was a science thing several months ago about how one of the functions of sleep was to flush toxins from your brain. So you're not wrong?
- click170 12y ago
  Was it Sleepless In America? If it was, I think it aired again recently. I didn't realize it wasn't new. Highly recommend watching it. Not only does sleep help your brain flush the toxins that are produced as a byproduct of your brain, but cancer can grow twice as fast in tired mice compared to well rested mice. Do yourself a favor and check it out if you haven't seen it.
- tannerc 12y ago
  Here's the NPR story on that research: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/10/18/236211811/brains-sweep-themselves-clean-of-toxins-during-sleep http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/10/18/236211811/brains-...

rajat2109 12y ago

Does this apply for adults also? May be this is the reason why tech gaint companies like Google have sleeping pods in their offices!

snoogler 12y ago
I've worked in three separate Google offices, and never saw someone use a nap pod once. I tend to vary my task depending on the time of day an my energy level, e.g. code in the morning, review other people's CL's and do boring non-coding tasks in the afternoon. I think the focus on napping is more part of HN echo chamber (wish there was a less pejorative word, but it's a real thing) than something most people want to do, since Googlers have every opportunity and never do so.

segmondy 12y ago

I took a nap at work once during my lunch time and I was woken up by the silent cold stares. Never took a nap again. :-(