4 ms·

Ummm, no these two people report directly to a fairly well known name in tech. Also, what do I have to lose in naming and shaming them when we may just as well

Ummm, no these two people report directly to a fairly well known name in tech. Also, what do I have to lose in naming and shaming them when we may just as well open source our work when we tell our story. I'm tired of being stepped on and not being able to get the right people behind & helping us!

softbuilder 12y ago
A thought: Big orgs have a hard time getting shit done. Lots of initiatives die before they even get out the door. Just because this bigwig was excited doesn't mean something will definitely come of it. Another thought is this might be a FUD play. Get you to give up so you're not threatening something else. Definitely interested to hear the story after your NDA period.
yourapostasy 12y ago
The key is not the reporting chain as much as who has operational control of budgetary decision making. It far easier to find out who reports to whom than who really wields the check writing power, and how big a check they can write before they have to get someone else's approval. Right now, you have yet to open source and still have the potential to out-compete the Big Name. That is worth potential income in the future. Big Name might be impressive, but there are any number of people here that can tell you from first-hand experience why Big does not necessarily mean You Shouldn't Compete With Them. When you name and shame, your options narrow. You have no way to prove what happened, and you should get together with an attorney to find out how exposed you are to a lawsuit if you name and shame. And any potential future income can become entangled in litigation budgets if that happens. With regards to "the right people", you got a ton of them right here on HN. Rare is the deal that cannot wait a few days longer, especially large deals (for the Corp. Dev. guy pulling the trigger on an acquisition/acquihire it is still a big deal, just not as potentially a life-changing one as for you). Take advantage of that latency to ping the hivemind here and find out different opinions you and your braintrust might not have considered yet. If I blew up bridges every time I was stepped upon, then I wouldn't still be in business today. This happens in business; it's a very bloody game of inches that takes place over years and decades.
- LargeCompanies 12y ago
  Thanks, but lawyers cost money and that resource is lacking for us. We tried and tried and tried to get out to the valley and via an incubator(YC or TechStars), but all we could get to help us are local incubators. We greatly appreciate their backing, but they do not have the backgrounds/experience/networks a YC or TechStars has to thoroughly help us. THough there are some people in this east coast town who could help us, but they do not seem receptive to. It's not like we haven't tried to connect with them, though!
  - tarikjn 12y ago
    I am not a lawyer, but sounds like you don't have much to loose. It's your calculation to make, but you are probably in a position where calling them out publicly could bring you more benefits than harm (when that NDA expires, obviously), in term of visibility and respect. The net for society of doing that is most likely positive as you are forcing them and others to reconsider their behaviors and warning other entrepreneurs of this behavior. There is a risk they would try to sue your startup out of existence (ie. even if they don't have cause they can attempt to drown you in legal costs), but this would bring even greater attention to the matter.
  - yourapostasy 12y ago
    Most attorneys will listen for 15-30 minutes in a free phone meeting, enough to tell you in general terms how likely you will need their expertise; that is, how much hot water you are getting yourself into. Your braintrust (incubator, mentors, advisers, board) would at least have known about that; that is basic business knowledge. Either communications has broken down badly between your braintrust and you/your team, or I'm missing critical pieces of the picture. Your public persona is a resource to be husbanded and crafted as carefully as your codebase and/or finances. If you plan on open sourcing your code, exiting the entire sector you are operating in and never intending to come back, then there isn't much Big Name can do to you even if they felt like it, as long as your wording was careful. Go ahead in that case, and burn down that persona for that space. But never is a long, long time. And this industry is still really, really small when you look at those you want to work with in a specialty. If you intend to continue in your specialty, then I would take some time off, decompress, and figure out what is really important to yourself. The fact that this style of arguably unethical behavior is abundant and a regular feature of the corporate landscape is already out there now, via this thread and meta-discussions reverberating out there; while it can be emotionally satisfying to divulge details, make no mistake, there will always be a cost attached. Just be certain you are willing to pay that cost. If you have any direct competitors in your space, and your space is very small, you can mention to them that Big Name is fishing for both technical and market intelligence details by posing as potential acquirers, and to be careful what is said around them. You don't need to mention your gaffe. If the space is small enough, then that will have the effect of freezing out Big Name on any future fishing expeditions. That is likely to have a bigger, more focused effect that has direct beneficial bearing upon your activities than trying to generally name and shame them out in the open.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

softbuilder 12y ago

A thought: Big orgs have a hard time getting shit done. Lots of initiatives die before they even get out the door. Just because this bigwig was excited doesn't mean something will definitely come of it. Another thought is this might be a FUD play. Get you to give up so you're not threatening something else. Definitely interested to hear the story after your NDA period.

yourapostasy 12y ago

The key is not the reporting chain as much as who has operational control of budgetary decision making. It far easier to find out who reports to whom than who really wields the check writing power, and how big a check they can write before they have to get someone else's approval. Right now, you have yet to open source and still have the potential to out-compete the Big Name. That is worth potential income in the future. Big Name might be impressive, but there are any number of people here that can tell you from first-hand experience why Big does not necessarily mean You Shouldn't Compete With Them. When you name and shame, your options narrow. You have no way to prove what happened, and you should get together with an attorney to find out how exposed you are to a lawsuit if you name and shame. And any potential future income can become entangled in litigation budgets if that happens. With regards to "the right people", you got a ton of them right here on HN. Rare is the deal that cannot wait a few days longer, especially large deals (for the Corp. Dev. guy pulling the trigger on an acquisition/acquihire it is still a big deal, just not as potentially a life-changing one as for you). Take advantage of that latency to ping the hivemind here and find out different opinions you and your braintrust might not have considered yet. If I blew up bridges every time I was stepped upon, then I wouldn't still be in business today. This happens in business; it's a very bloody game of inches that takes place over years and decades.

LargeCompanies 12y ago
Thanks, but lawyers cost money and that resource is lacking for us. We tried and tried and tried to get out to the valley and via an incubator(YC or TechStars), but all we could get to help us are local incubators. We greatly appreciate their backing, but they do not have the backgrounds/experience/networks a YC or TechStars has to thoroughly help us. THough there are some people in this east coast town who could help us, but they do not seem receptive to. It's not like we haven't tried to connect with them, though!
- tarikjn 12y ago
  I am not a lawyer, but sounds like you don't have much to loose. It's your calculation to make, but you are probably in a position where calling them out publicly could bring you more benefits than harm (when that NDA expires, obviously), in term of visibility and respect. The net for society of doing that is most likely positive as you are forcing them and others to reconsider their behaviors and warning other entrepreneurs of this behavior. There is a risk they would try to sue your startup out of existence (ie. even if they don't have cause they can attempt to drown you in legal costs), but this would bring even greater attention to the matter.
- yourapostasy 12y ago
  Most attorneys will listen for 15-30 minutes in a free phone meeting, enough to tell you in general terms how likely you will need their expertise; that is, how much hot water you are getting yourself into. Your braintrust (incubator, mentors, advisers, board) would at least have known about that; that is basic business knowledge. Either communications has broken down badly between your braintrust and you/your team, or I'm missing critical pieces of the picture. Your public persona is a resource to be husbanded and crafted as carefully as your codebase and/or finances. If you plan on open sourcing your code, exiting the entire sector you are operating in and never intending to come back, then there isn't much Big Name can do to you even if they felt like it, as long as your wording was careful. Go ahead in that case, and burn down that persona for that space. But never is a long, long time. And this industry is still really, really small when you look at those you want to work with in a specialty. If you intend to continue in your specialty, then I would take some time off, decompress, and figure out what is really important to yourself. The fact that this style of arguably unethical behavior is abundant and a regular feature of the corporate landscape is already out there now, via this thread and meta-discussions reverberating out there; while it can be emotionally satisfying to divulge details, make no mistake, there will always be a cost attached. Just be certain you are willing to pay that cost. If you have any direct competitors in your space, and your space is very small, you can mention to them that Big Name is fishing for both technical and market intelligence details by posing as potential acquirers, and to be careful what is said around them. You don't need to mention your gaffe. If the space is small enough, then that will have the effect of freezing out Big Name on any future fishing expeditions. That is likely to have a bigger, more focused effect that has direct beneficial bearing upon your activities than trying to generally name and shame them out in the open.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]