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It's a little more complex than that I think. The truth is that the young are more flexible than the old. The nature/nurture debate actually works the other way

by KayEss 12y ago

It's a little more complex than that I think. The truth is that the young are more flexible than the old. The nature/nurture debate actually works the other way around than what people think. When young it's nearly all nurture, and as we age our lives much more reflect our nature. This simply reflects the difference in the power we have over our lives at these different ages. The reason for taking to heart "help your kid be whoever that is" is because you don't want them wasting their best years trying to be something that they're not. If you try to push them into what you want you'll win to start with, but eventually you will lose. It's far better for them to get the nature part earlier and get to be who they are rather than spend years trying to be somebody else with all the pain, frustration and ennui that will foster.

bcantrill 12y ago
So, do you not have kids or has it just been a really long time since you've had young kids? My kids are ten, seven and two-and-a-half; when you have one kid, you can fool yourself into thinking that nurture is playing a large role -- but when you have two (and certainly when you have three) you begin to realize how much of our nature is, um, nature. I think nurture is important (obviously), but much more for emotional well-being (that whole unconditional love thing), for character (that whole right-from-wrong thing) and for values than for the essence of their person. I also don't think that "you'll win to start with" -- in most cases when I've seen kids pushed into things that are fundamentally not in their disposition, the effort doesn't clear the end of the runway. If you had better luck, that's awesome for you and for your kids -- but my experience has been that it's easier to change me to match my kids dispositions than vice versa.
- KayEss 12y ago
  > in most cases when I've seen kids pushed into things that are fundamentally not in their disposition, the effort doesn't clear the end of the runway. If you had better luck, that's awesome for you and for your kids This is kind of missing the point. I agree with you that we oughtn't be forcing our kids to do things that are not in their disposition, but in practice we do this all of the time. My four year old doesn't get to choose the clothes she wears, the food she eats, when to go to bed, when to get up, whether she goes to school or not -- for most of her time she isn't in control of her life in any meaningful way. I on the other hand get to choose these things not only for myself but for her. Given that it would be easy for me to put my foot down (as I sometimes have to), but in general I try to make sure that she is empowered as much as she can be so we can both try to learn what her real preferences are -- but in practice I'd be fooling myself if I believed that she was living the life she would build for herself at this age. Hopefully what I'm doing now with her will help her to build that life quicker and with less dead ends when she does come of age -- but only time will tell.

by KayEss 12y ago

bcantrill 12y ago

So, do you not have kids or has it just been a really long time since you've had young kids? My kids are ten, seven and two-and-a-half; when you have one kid, you can fool yourself into thinking that nurture is playing a large role -- but when you have two (and certainly when you have three) you begin to realize how much of our nature is, um, nature. I think nurture is important (obviously), but much more for emotional well-being (that whole unconditional love thing), for character (that whole right-from-wrong thing) and for values than for the essence of their person. I also don't think that "you'll win to start with" -- in most cases when I've seen kids pushed into things that are fundamentally not in their disposition, the effort doesn't clear the end of the runway. If you had better luck, that's awesome for you and for your kids -- but my experience has been that it's easier to change me to match my kids dispositions than vice versa.

KayEss 12y ago
> in most cases when I've seen kids pushed into things that are fundamentally not in their disposition, the effort doesn't clear the end of the runway. If you had better luck, that's awesome for you and for your kids This is kind of missing the point. I agree with you that we oughtn't be forcing our kids to do things that are not in their disposition, but in practice we do this all of the time. My four year old doesn't get to choose the clothes she wears, the food she eats, when to go to bed, when to get up, whether she goes to school or not -- for most of her time she isn't in control of her life in any meaningful way. I on the other hand get to choose these things not only for myself but for her. Given that it would be easy for me to put my foot down (as I sometimes have to), but in general I try to make sure that she is empowered as much as she can be so we can both try to learn what her real preferences are -- but in practice I'd be fooling myself if I believed that she was living the life she would build for herself at this age. Hopefully what I'm doing now with her will help her to build that life quicker and with less dead ends when she does come of age -- but only time will tell.