4 ms·

Disqus: Scoble, Winer and Fred Wilson Like it, Why I Don't

17 points by nickb 19y ago

alaskamiller 19y ago
Ruh-roh, Shaggy. Someone figured out that embedded iframes on your webpage doesn't make it your webpage anymore.
- bootload 19y ago
  "... Jason showed Disqus to me a few weeks back, and I seriously considered using it -- until I figured out that you don't own your comments anymore. ..." A quick check of the faq, blog and api disproves this. You do own your comments and better still you can extract them via xml. - http://disqus.com/faq/#faq-7 http://disqus.com/faq/#faq-7 - http://disqus.com/developers/#api-methods http://disqus.com/developers/#api-methods - http://blog.disqus.net/2007/11/05/export-comments-to-xml-community-forum/ http://blog.disqus.net/2007/11/05/export-comments-to-xml-com... So you own your comments, can get access to the data. The only real data disqus can claim ownership is the right to infer from your data. It's this distinction that makes me think using the disqus service is valuable because they give you the ability to take your data away.
  - alaskamiller 19y ago
    I've interpreted his concern as two folds: 1) He's worried that the comments no longer are in his control, ie, on his server. 2) He's worried that because the comments no longer being his server, can not be cached by Google. He wants that Google juice, but when the comments now reside on the disqus.com domain, it's harder to connect the two. The second one is a biggie. For the power users, they won't like this at all. The blogspot/wordpress.com folks wouldn't care, but the ones that make it their business to blog professionally would.
    - bootload 19y ago
      "... He's worried that because the comments no longer being his server, can not be cached by Google. He wants that Google juice, but when the comments now reside on the disqus.com domain, it's harder to connect the two. ..." Then suck the comments up via xml or at the api (at some time in future TM) and redisplay your documents. Of course the other alternative is to host your own comments and deal with the associated problems. I guess the pro's should earn their money and deal with the comments with their own tech, time & resources. For the rest of the world there is always alternatives and this service is looking good because of the "Freedom to Leave". Meaning you can stay because you are free to leave at any time. [0] So if you are a developer "Lock-in is the new Lock-out". The ability to get your data out is a feature of lots of successful services that attracted early adopters. [0] SImon Phipps, Zen of Free, OSCON 2006, http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/advocacy/events/techdays/paris/Zen_Of_Free.pdf http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/advocacy/events/tech...
      - alaskamiller 19y ago
        That seems so circular and stupid. Hi guys: here's my page. Comment on it, it resides on a separate server. Hi guys: every week I'm going to update all my pages with an XML file to update the comments that reside on a separate server. Like I said, the power users will not want to cede as much control or deal with so much bullshit. They want the comments on their server reflected through Google crawl. So Disqus is left with a choice if they choose to pursue the power users, sell it as a plugin and give them the code, or get bought out by WordPress or Moveable Type.
        bootload 19y ago
        "... the power users will not want to cede as much control or deal with so much bullshit ..." Power users can code :) "... So Disqus is left with a choice if they choose to pursue the power users ..." Is this the market they are in? I'm not sure but Dave Winer sure handles Disqus ~ http://www.scripting.com/stories/2007/11/29/specificallyAboutPodcastin.html http://www.scripting.com/stories/2007/11/29/specificallyAbou... Scripting News is about as power user as you can get. I'm not sure what the Disqus target market is but I don't think it's the power-users that will have the problems as you suggest.
- danielha 19y ago
  +! for Scooby Doo sarcasm, however comments are not displayed in an iframe. Posting to our server is.
mattmaroon 19y ago
I think this is a problem they are working on and will solve in time. And it's one I'm willing to put up with since in return I get kick-ass threaded comments that I can read and reply to via email.
steve____ 19y ago
As long as I can download and/or sync my comments elsewhere and have the ability to completely remove my comments from their site, I'm happy. For me the huge plus is receiving blog comments via email. Currently they are not sending the MessageID in the Reference field so messages aren't showing up as threaded, but they are aware of this. IMO blog comments should be handled like mailing lists/news groups.
tocomment 19y ago
I emailed Daniel about this. One feature I'd really like to see is a way to "reuse" the user accounts I have on my own site. I don't want to tell users, oh if you want to comment you have to sign up for a new account over here.. I haven't given it enough thought to know if that is possible though :-(
- tlrobinson 19y ago
  If both Disqus and your site used OpenID you would get that for free :) Unfortunately it appears that neither does :( Anyone developing a new website should take the little extra time to support OpenID authentication, it would make the world a better place. However, one nice thing about Disqus (like OpenID) is that you only have to register with Disqus once, and any blog using Disqus can use that one account.
  - danielha 19y ago
    We like OpenID and you'll see it show up soon.
  - tocomment 19y ago
    I always hear people talking junk about openID, so I figured I should wait until the next standard comes along. But per your comment I'm going to look at it again with hopefully an open mind.
tlrobinson 19y ago
Personally, I don't really care where the comments show up on Google searches. What I do care about is the fact that it took about 30 seconds to sign up and add the Javascript snippet to my site's footer template. It couldn't have been easier. Removing as many hurdles as possible is key.
- rontr 19y ago
  Problem is Google penalizes pages with duplicate content by lowering their PageRank. If comments are duplicated on your blog as well as on discus.com, your blog could pay a price.
  - tlrobinson 19y ago
    But they aren't duplicated, since the comments show up in a JavaScript generated iframe (although I admit that's not ideal) The Googlebot doesn't execute JavaScript, or count iframe'd pages as part of the original page.
jey 19y ago
Even if this guy had a point to make, he sure as hell did not make it with that example. That example seems to indicate that Jason's site isn't even indexed by Google, so of course it doesn't show up.
- tlrobinson 19y ago
  The point is the comments aren't indexed as part of your site because they are displayed in an iframe from Disqus's servers. They show up as belonging to Disqus, not you.
  - jey 19y ago
    That makes much more sense, thank you.
  - danielha 19y ago
    Comments are not displayed in an iframe. Search engines do not index included JavaScript properly.
    - tlrobinson 19y ago
      Err, yeah I guess just the new comment box is in the iframe, but obviously most web crawlers aren't going to execute the JavaScript that displays existing comments. It sounds like your API addresses this, but as someone mentioned, what about the problem of Google penalizing sites with content showing up in multiple places?
      - danielha 19y ago
        Yeah, it's definitely a problem. It'll need SEO work on our end and that's what we're doing.
cosmok 19y ago
after having trouble integrating Disqus with sansj, I started using http://js-kit.com/comments/?wow http://js-kit.com/comments/?wow and they claim that search engines index the comments on your site.
- danielha 19y ago
  Sorry for the trouble - would love to hear about it though: daniel@disqus.com Btw, search engines access j-kit's comments by indexing the RSS feed. You could probably fiddle with a DNS CNAME to have the RSS appear as if from "your domain." This is far from a solution.

17 points by nickb 19y ago

alaskamiller 19y ago

Ruh-roh, Shaggy. Someone figured out that embedded iframes on your webpage doesn't make it your webpage anymore.

bootload 19y ago
"... Jason showed Disqus to me a few weeks back, and I seriously considered using it -- until I figured out that you don't own your comments anymore. ..." A quick check of the faq, blog and api disproves this. You do own your comments and better still you can extract them via xml. - http://disqus.com/faq/#faq-7 http://disqus.com/faq/#faq-7 - http://disqus.com/developers/#api-methods http://disqus.com/developers/#api-methods - http://blog.disqus.net/2007/11/05/export-comments-to-xml-community-forum/ http://blog.disqus.net/2007/11/05/export-comments-to-xml-com... So you own your comments, can get access to the data. The only real data disqus can claim ownership is the right to infer from your data. It's this distinction that makes me think using the disqus service is valuable because they give you the ability to take your data away.
- alaskamiller 19y ago
  I've interpreted his concern as two folds: 1) He's worried that the comments no longer are in his control, ie, on his server. 2) He's worried that because the comments no longer being his server, can not be cached by Google. He wants that Google juice, but when the comments now reside on the disqus.com domain, it's harder to connect the two. The second one is a biggie. For the power users, they won't like this at all. The blogspot/wordpress.com folks wouldn't care, but the ones that make it their business to blog professionally would.
  - bootload 19y ago
    "... He's worried that because the comments no longer being his server, can not be cached by Google. He wants that Google juice, but when the comments now reside on the disqus.com domain, it's harder to connect the two. ..." Then suck the comments up via xml or at the api (at some time in future TM) and redisplay your documents. Of course the other alternative is to host your own comments and deal with the associated problems. I guess the pro's should earn their money and deal with the comments with their own tech, time & resources. For the rest of the world there is always alternatives and this service is looking good because of the "Freedom to Leave". Meaning you can stay because you are free to leave at any time. [0] So if you are a developer "Lock-in is the new Lock-out". The ability to get your data out is a feature of lots of successful services that attracted early adopters. [0] SImon Phipps, Zen of Free, OSCON 2006, http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/advocacy/events/techdays/paris/Zen_Of_Free.pdf http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/advocacy/events/tech...
    - alaskamiller 19y ago
      That seems so circular and stupid. Hi guys: here's my page. Comment on it, it resides on a separate server. Hi guys: every week I'm going to update all my pages with an XML file to update the comments that reside on a separate server. Like I said, the power users will not want to cede as much control or deal with so much bullshit. They want the comments on their server reflected through Google crawl. So Disqus is left with a choice if they choose to pursue the power users, sell it as a plugin and give them the code, or get bought out by WordPress or Moveable Type.
      - bootload 19y ago
        "... the power users will not want to cede as much control or deal with so much bullshit ..." Power users can code :) "... So Disqus is left with a choice if they choose to pursue the power users ..." Is this the market they are in? I'm not sure but Dave Winer sure handles Disqus ~ http://www.scripting.com/stories/2007/11/29/specificallyAboutPodcastin.html http://www.scripting.com/stories/2007/11/29/specificallyAbou... Scripting News is about as power user as you can get. I'm not sure what the Disqus target market is but I don't think it's the power-users that will have the problems as you suggest.
danielha 19y ago
+! for Scooby Doo sarcasm, however comments are not displayed in an iframe. Posting to our server is.

mattmaroon 19y ago

I think this is a problem they are working on and will solve in time. And it's one I'm willing to put up with since in return I get kick-ass threaded comments that I can read and reply to via email.

steve____ 19y ago

As long as I can download and/or sync my comments elsewhere and have the ability to completely remove my comments from their site, I'm happy. For me the huge plus is receiving blog comments via email. Currently they are not sending the MessageID in the Reference field so messages aren't showing up as threaded, but they are aware of this. IMO blog comments should be handled like mailing lists/news groups.

tocomment 19y ago

I emailed Daniel about this. One feature I'd really like to see is a way to "reuse" the user accounts I have on my own site. I don't want to tell users, oh if you want to comment you have to sign up for a new account over here.. I haven't given it enough thought to know if that is possible though :-(

tlrobinson 19y ago
If both Disqus and your site used OpenID you would get that for free :) Unfortunately it appears that neither does :( Anyone developing a new website should take the little extra time to support OpenID authentication, it would make the world a better place. However, one nice thing about Disqus (like OpenID) is that you only have to register with Disqus once, and any blog using Disqus can use that one account.
- danielha 19y ago
  We like OpenID and you'll see it show up soon.
- tocomment 19y ago
  I always hear people talking junk about openID, so I figured I should wait until the next standard comes along. But per your comment I'm going to look at it again with hopefully an open mind.

tlrobinson 19y ago

Personally, I don't really care where the comments show up on Google searches. What I do care about is the fact that it took about 30 seconds to sign up and add the Javascript snippet to my site's footer template. It couldn't have been easier. Removing as many hurdles as possible is key.

rontr 19y ago
Problem is Google penalizes pages with duplicate content by lowering their PageRank. If comments are duplicated on your blog as well as on discus.com, your blog could pay a price.
- tlrobinson 19y ago
  But they aren't duplicated, since the comments show up in a JavaScript generated iframe (although I admit that's not ideal) The Googlebot doesn't execute JavaScript, or count iframe'd pages as part of the original page.

jey 19y ago

Even if this guy had a point to make, he sure as hell did not make it with that example. That example seems to indicate that Jason's site isn't even indexed by Google, so of course it doesn't show up.

tlrobinson 19y ago
The point is the comments aren't indexed as part of your site because they are displayed in an iframe from Disqus's servers. They show up as belonging to Disqus, not you.
- jey 19y ago
  That makes much more sense, thank you.
- danielha 19y ago
  Comments are not displayed in an iframe. Search engines do not index included JavaScript properly.
  - tlrobinson 19y ago
    Err, yeah I guess just the new comment box is in the iframe, but obviously most web crawlers aren't going to execute the JavaScript that displays existing comments. It sounds like your API addresses this, but as someone mentioned, what about the problem of Google penalizing sites with content showing up in multiple places?
    - danielha 19y ago
      Yeah, it's definitely a problem. It'll need SEO work on our end and that's what we're doing.

cosmok 19y ago

after having trouble integrating Disqus with sansj, I started using http://js-kit.com/comments/?wow http://js-kit.com/comments/?wow and they claim that search engines index the comments on your site.

danielha 19y ago
Sorry for the trouble - would love to hear about it though: daniel@disqus.com Btw, search engines access j-kit's comments by indexing the RSS feed. You could probably fiddle with a DNS CNAME to have the RSS appear as if from "your domain." This is far from a solution.