4 ms·

A little meta-observation: across HN discussions of topics like these, I notice over and over, the same commenters posting abundantly, vociferously, and striden

A little meta-observation: across HN discussions of topics like these, I notice over and over, the same commenters posting abundantly, vociferously, and stridently in support of what I might loosely term the pro-social-engineering side of the debate. I worry that this might falsely create an impression of consensus when there is in fact none, especially considering the potential social penalties for voicing dissent. There also seems to be, for males, a certain prestige to espousing this type of ideology, and it seems to increasingly be being used as a form of social signalling (not in the least because it is oppressive to males not occupying the very highest social strata, incurring a real cost for them, hence being a somewhat honest signal). Not sure how these two phenomena interact.

exstudent 12y ago
Very good observation. It's unfortunate that this topic seems to allow for zero debate. There are quite a few reasons that someone wouldn't want genders treated different, but even stating that is an invitation to massive down voting. I'm still sad we lost meritocracy. I come from a poor background and am a minority but today I'm a successful developer. I fought my way up the chain with hard work, self-study and being good at what I do. It's sad that now a lot of the same people who didn't like that I was advancing are now espousing the urgent need to eliminate meritocracy (which is really the only thing I can call the ladder I climbed up) in favor of identity politics.
exstudent2 12y ago
I tried to comment on this (see my original comment below), but it turns out I've been shadow banned. You can view my comment history here: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=exstudent https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=exstudent I think that I was banned for what I said backs up your statement and my original comment. -- Very good observation. It's unfortunate that this topic seems to allow for zero debate. There are quite a few reasons that someone wouldn't want genders treated different, but even stating that is an invitation to massive down voting. I'm still sad we lost meritocracy. I come from a poor background and am a minority but today I'm a successful developer. I fought my way up the chain with hard work, self-study and being good at what I do. It's sad that now a lot of the same people who didn't like that I was advancing are now espousing the urgent need to eliminate meritocracy (which is really the only thing I can call the ladder I climbed up) in favor of identity politics.
- vacri 12y ago
  Possibly the reason why you get downvoted is because you say silly things like "we lost 'meritocracy'", like it's some sort of team sport, or it's a war and ground was lost to the enemy. If you want to be treated better, then perhaps not tar everyone who disagrees with you (or even all feminists) with that brush you're using. You say you're talented, so perhaps use that talent to focus your commentary appropriately, rather than engage in silly us vs them 'sides'.
  - exstudent2 12y ago
    We (myself and others) did "lose" meritocracy. It was a valid philosophy and important part of business culture until recently when it's become banned by hr/pr. > If you want to be treated better, then perhaps not tar everyone who disagrees with you (or even all feminists) with that brush you're using. I'm just disagreeing. I'm also not complaining about down voting. I was BANNED; that's the type of reaction I was talking about. I'm not saying we should ban feminists from discussion. I don't have to agree with people to allow them to speak their mind. Apparently that doesn't work for non-feminists though. That's precisely my point.
- pervycreeper 12y ago
  Refocusing on 'gender equality' is a great way to exacerbate economic inequality by distracting attention from the latter issue and crippling certain groups from advancing effectively. Not saying this is a conscious thing, but this seems to be where incentives are leading people.

exstudent 12y ago

Very good observation. It's unfortunate that this topic seems to allow for zero debate. There are quite a few reasons that someone wouldn't want genders treated different, but even stating that is an invitation to massive down voting. I'm still sad we lost meritocracy. I come from a poor background and am a minority but today I'm a successful developer. I fought my way up the chain with hard work, self-study and being good at what I do. It's sad that now a lot of the same people who didn't like that I was advancing are now espousing the urgent need to eliminate meritocracy (which is really the only thing I can call the ladder I climbed up) in favor of identity politics.

exstudent2 12y ago

I tried to comment on this (see my original comment below), but it turns out I've been shadow banned. You can view my comment history here: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=exstudent https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=exstudent I think that I was banned for what I said backs up your statement and my original comment. -- Very good observation. It's unfortunate that this topic seems to allow for zero debate. There are quite a few reasons that someone wouldn't want genders treated different, but even stating that is an invitation to massive down voting. I'm still sad we lost meritocracy. I come from a poor background and am a minority but today I'm a successful developer. I fought my way up the chain with hard work, self-study and being good at what I do. It's sad that now a lot of the same people who didn't like that I was advancing are now espousing the urgent need to eliminate meritocracy (which is really the only thing I can call the ladder I climbed up) in favor of identity politics.

vacri 12y ago
Possibly the reason why you get downvoted is because you say silly things like "we lost 'meritocracy'", like it's some sort of team sport, or it's a war and ground was lost to the enemy. If you want to be treated better, then perhaps not tar everyone who disagrees with you (or even all feminists) with that brush you're using. You say you're talented, so perhaps use that talent to focus your commentary appropriately, rather than engage in silly us vs them 'sides'.
- exstudent2 12y ago
  We (myself and others) did "lose" meritocracy. It was a valid philosophy and important part of business culture until recently when it's become banned by hr/pr. > If you want to be treated better, then perhaps not tar everyone who disagrees with you (or even all feminists) with that brush you're using. I'm just disagreeing. I'm also not complaining about down voting. I was BANNED; that's the type of reaction I was talking about. I'm not saying we should ban feminists from discussion. I don't have to agree with people to allow them to speak their mind. Apparently that doesn't work for non-feminists though. That's precisely my point.
pervycreeper 12y ago
Refocusing on 'gender equality' is a great way to exacerbate economic inequality by distracting attention from the latter issue and crippling certain groups from advancing effectively. Not saying this is a conscious thing, but this seems to be where incentives are leading people.