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> people here regularly consume frozen meat Unless they eat it while it's still frozen, why is this noteworthy? Also: > Most people use outhouses, because in

by cbd1984 12y ago

> people here regularly consume frozen meat Unless they eat it while it's still frozen, why is this noteworthy? Also: > Most people use outhouses, because indoor plumbing tends to freeze. This is due to their poverty, not the cold. If it was just cold there, as opposed to cold and impoverished, they could either keep water constantly running through the pipes, or, if that won't work, insulate them better, possibly with heating coils. "It's so cold, they make sure they have to go outside just to perform basic bodily functions" sounds a bit... insane? Idiotic? Poorly-written and probably badly-researched? > Cars are kept in heated garages or, if left outside, left running all the time. This isn't unusual. Block heaters also work, and might represent a fuel savings once the electricity infrastructure to plug in all of them is in place. > Crops don’t grow in the frozen ground, so people have a largely carnivorous diet—reindeer meat, raw flesh shaved from frozen fish, and ice cubes of horse blood with macaroni are a few local delicacies. This isn't so much due to the cold as it is due to poverty, and possibly local culture. > Chapple found it difficult to speak with the people he encountered, as many people were rushing as fast as possible from one oasis of warmth to another. Was he determined to do his interviews outside? I can understand him wanting to take pictures outside as much as possible, and his camera freezing wasn't something I thought modern cameras were especially prone to, but interviews don't need to be done out in the cold. Unless you're the kind of person determined to climb a radio mast to get an overview shot of a town. Maybe if you're that person, everything needs to be done in the most... dramatic way possible.

josefresco 12y ago
Even without "poverty" keeping plumbing from freezing in temperatures like this is still a challenge. I frequent a northern Maine camp with the amenities of a regular house, and routinely have to deal with scenarios that extreme cold brings such as freezing pipes/septic lines, ice build up etc. Also, tools like "block heaters" don't apply to the entire vehicle and all of it's inter-dependent parts. In that kind of cold, things like transmission fluid, and even door handles stop functioning normally.
pdx 12y ago
Block heaters in cars are not effective in extremely cold temperatures. They keep the oil warm, but the battery still gets too cold to crank. In college, I used to remove my car battery from my car and store it on my kitchen floor at night so I could start the car in the morning. Cameras will suffer similar issues. Lithium Ion batteries are only rated down to -20degC. Below that, the internal impedance of the battery rapidly increases as temperature decreases, and you get extremely shortened battery life. I once tested a product I designed, that normally works for 24 hours, and got only 2.5 hours from it at -40degC.
- SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
  In my anecdotal experience, a standard compact camera battery, also Li Ion, works quite poorly on a ski slope at -5 to -10C. Battery life was less than a third of usual for several days running, despite a full charge each night.
  - abakker 12y ago
    as a side note, you can put the battery back in your pocket with a hand warmer, and it comes back to life. I tend to do this on cold days with my phone also, so that the batteries stay warm in case I need to use them.
emodendroket 12y ago
> Unless they eat it while it's still frozen, why is this noteworthy? I'm pretty sure that's what it's saying. I also don't think keeping water constantly running through pipes is necessarily enough to keep things from freezing at 40 degrees below zero.
ctdonath 12y ago
Methinks you're severely overlooking the cost of maintaining temperate-lifestyle behavior in deeply frozen environments. Thawing meat takes time & energy. It may very well be more convenient to just eat it frozen, especially if you're working outside and your lunch is frozen by ambient temperatures as the norm. Keep water constantly running thru the pipes That's a LOT of water - where do you get it from? where do you put it when it's too cool to use? Remember, this is an environment where most water is frozen; liquid water is an anomaly. More importantly: you're overlooking where the septic drainage pipe is going. You don't "constantly run water thru" that pipe. It doesn't go to a community sewage system. It goes...somewhere out in the back yard. You can't keep the full length of that pipe, and where it's going, sufficiently warm. insulate [pipes] better Insulation delays thermal loss, but does not halt it. Where is the heat source? heating coils? that's more costly energy being pumped into a low-value pipe to fight extreme temperature differentials compounded by the thermal mass of water. What you're imputing should be in place will cost a lot more than you expect. We're talking an environment where dirt itself is frozen deep down, all working at sinking any heat you pump in. block heaters work Ok, the block isn't frozen then. But your tires are - literally, the rubber on your tires is rock solid - and the flat side of the tire contacting the ground doesn't flex when rotating so you get an extremely bumpy ride just for starters. Speaking of starters, your starter is frozen. And the door handles. The door hinge may not give. The battery may not start. Your wiper fluid ("works to 40 below!" and temps hit -50 last night) is a block of ice. You'll have to heat the entire car just to make it function in a tolerable manner ... easier just to get on a bike (which you can easily keep warm inside) or walk. [several imputations of blame on poverty] Consider the _relative_ poverty. Just flushing the toilet or opening the car door just went from thoughtlessly free to significant/nontrivial cost. Crops are nearly nonexistent, almost any food not local meat has to be shipped thousands of miles to a low-demand location. Suddenly EVERYTHING costs much more just because it's so blasted cold out. Your (yes, you) normal expenses just went up 10x. Want to eat? cheapest way is go hunting out your back door. Want to, er, egest? outhouse. The people there aren't necessarily "poor", it's that the cost of living - in a manner not consistent with certain realities of the environment - is very high. his camera freezing wasn't something I thought modern cameras were especially prone to Again, you underestimate how very cold it is outside there, and how pervasive that cold is. Modern cameras, generally speaking, are not built for use at seriously sub-zero temperatures. interviews don't need to be done out in the cold But talking to "the man in the street" does. He wanted to interview people he'd never met, people who were just walking by. If you're talking about serious outdoor cold, as regards to people rushing from one oasis of warmth to another, you're going to find yourself in the difficult position of trying to talk to people rushing from one oasis of warmth to another and who are uninterested in talking to strangers about how cold it is.
trhway 12y ago
>> people here regularly consume frozen meat >Unless they eat it while it's still frozen, why is this noteworthy? eating frozen meat is a lifestyle detail there. Note - it is high fat meat (or fatty fish) which doesn't become firm hard brick like lean meat would. Also there is no mentioning of vodka(diluted ethanol) which goes very well (and i'd suspect - just from my gut (i mean real gut :) feeling helps to digest) with those fat meat/fish slices.
Thrymr 12y ago
>> Most people use outhouses, because indoor plumbing tends to freeze. > This is due to their poverty, not the cold. If it was just cold there, as opposed to cold and impoverished, they could either keep water constantly running through the pipes, or, if that won't work, insulate them better, possibly with heating coils. Outhouses are common in Alaska (outside of cities) as well, and it isn't exactly "poverty", but it is a significant cost to keep pipes from freezing.
Florin_Andrei 12y ago
> > Most people use outhouses, because indoor plumbing tends to freeze. > This is due to their poverty, not the cold. I'm more worried about the physiologic consequences of exposing, um, private parts to minus a bajillion degrees. I'm pretty sure you have to finish in a couple minutes, max, or else all sorts of really bad things will happen.
- mb_72 12y ago
  I can't recall the expedition or details, but on one artic adventure documentary I watched a while back one of the participants took 'too long' for a number 2 (> 30s), and his 'free hand' (sans gloves) become frostbitten so badly that he had to quit. He was kicking himself over a 'noob' mistake.
kybernetyk 12y ago
>and his camera freezing wasn't something I thought modern cameras were especially prone to They are. Try using your modern DSLR in even -10C for a day. You better bring some spare batteries with you. If I were to go on a photo safari in such cold I'd bring a mechanical Leica range finder camera (possibly a model completely without any electronics) and film. At least as a backup.
- seszett 12y ago
  I found that NiCd batteries worked much better in the cold than the stock Li-ion batteries of my DSLR (but they're heavier).

by cbd1984 12y ago

josefresco 12y ago

Even without "poverty" keeping plumbing from freezing in temperatures like this is still a challenge. I frequent a northern Maine camp with the amenities of a regular house, and routinely have to deal with scenarios that extreme cold brings such as freezing pipes/septic lines, ice build up etc. Also, tools like "block heaters" don't apply to the entire vehicle and all of it's inter-dependent parts. In that kind of cold, things like transmission fluid, and even door handles stop functioning normally.

pdx 12y ago

Block heaters in cars are not effective in extremely cold temperatures. They keep the oil warm, but the battery still gets too cold to crank. In college, I used to remove my car battery from my car and store it on my kitchen floor at night so I could start the car in the morning. Cameras will suffer similar issues. Lithium Ion batteries are only rated down to -20degC. Below that, the internal impedance of the battery rapidly increases as temperature decreases, and you get extremely shortened battery life. I once tested a product I designed, that normally works for 24 hours, and got only 2.5 hours from it at -40degC.

SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
In my anecdotal experience, a standard compact camera battery, also Li Ion, works quite poorly on a ski slope at -5 to -10C. Battery life was less than a third of usual for several days running, despite a full charge each night.
- abakker 12y ago
  as a side note, you can put the battery back in your pocket with a hand warmer, and it comes back to life. I tend to do this on cold days with my phone also, so that the batteries stay warm in case I need to use them.

emodendroket 12y ago

> Unless they eat it while it's still frozen, why is this noteworthy? I'm pretty sure that's what it's saying. I also don't think keeping water constantly running through pipes is necessarily enough to keep things from freezing at 40 degrees below zero.

ctdonath 12y ago

Methinks you're severely overlooking the cost of maintaining temperate-lifestyle behavior in deeply frozen environments. Thawing meat takes time & energy. It may very well be more convenient to just eat it frozen, especially if you're working outside and your lunch is frozen by ambient temperatures as the norm. Keep water constantly running thru the pipes That's a LOT of water - where do you get it from? where do you put it when it's too cool to use? Remember, this is an environment where most water is frozen; liquid water is an anomaly. More importantly: you're overlooking where the septic drainage pipe is going. You don't "constantly run water thru" that pipe. It doesn't go to a community sewage system. It goes...somewhere out in the back yard. You can't keep the full length of that pipe, and where it's going, sufficiently warm. insulate [pipes] better Insulation delays thermal loss, but does not halt it. Where is the heat source? heating coils? that's more costly energy being pumped into a low-value pipe to fight extreme temperature differentials compounded by the thermal mass of water. What you're imputing should be in place will cost a lot more than you expect. We're talking an environment where dirt itself is frozen deep down, all working at sinking any heat you pump in. block heaters work Ok, the block isn't frozen then. But your tires are - literally, the rubber on your tires is rock solid - and the flat side of the tire contacting the ground doesn't flex when rotating so you get an extremely bumpy ride just for starters. Speaking of starters, your starter is frozen. And the door handles. The door hinge may not give. The battery may not start. Your wiper fluid ("works to 40 below!" and temps hit -50 last night) is a block of ice. You'll have to heat the entire car just to make it function in a tolerable manner ... easier just to get on a bike (which you can easily keep warm inside) or walk. [several imputations of blame on poverty] Consider the _relative_ poverty. Just flushing the toilet or opening the car door just went from thoughtlessly free to significant/nontrivial cost. Crops are nearly nonexistent, almost any food not local meat has to be shipped thousands of miles to a low-demand location. Suddenly EVERYTHING costs much more just because it's so blasted cold out. Your (yes, you) normal expenses just went up 10x. Want to eat? cheapest way is go hunting out your back door. Want to, er, egest? outhouse. The people there aren't necessarily "poor", it's that the cost of living - in a manner not consistent with certain realities of the environment - is very high. his camera freezing wasn't something I thought modern cameras were especially prone to Again, you underestimate how very cold it is outside there, and how pervasive that cold is. Modern cameras, generally speaking, are not built for use at seriously sub-zero temperatures. interviews don't need to be done out in the cold But talking to "the man in the street" does. He wanted to interview people he'd never met, people who were just walking by. If you're talking about serious outdoor cold, as regards to people rushing from one oasis of warmth to another, you're going to find yourself in the difficult position of trying to talk to people rushing from one oasis of warmth to another and who are uninterested in talking to strangers about how cold it is.

trhway 12y ago

>> people here regularly consume frozen meat >Unless they eat it while it's still frozen, why is this noteworthy? eating frozen meat is a lifestyle detail there. Note - it is high fat meat (or fatty fish) which doesn't become firm hard brick like lean meat would. Also there is no mentioning of vodka(diluted ethanol) which goes very well (and i'd suspect - just from my gut (i mean real gut :) feeling helps to digest) with those fat meat/fish slices.

Thrymr 12y ago

>> Most people use outhouses, because indoor plumbing tends to freeze. > This is due to their poverty, not the cold. If it was just cold there, as opposed to cold and impoverished, they could either keep water constantly running through the pipes, or, if that won't work, insulate them better, possibly with heating coils. Outhouses are common in Alaska (outside of cities) as well, and it isn't exactly "poverty", but it is a significant cost to keep pipes from freezing.

Florin_Andrei 12y ago

> > Most people use outhouses, because indoor plumbing tends to freeze. > This is due to their poverty, not the cold. I'm more worried about the physiologic consequences of exposing, um, private parts to minus a bajillion degrees. I'm pretty sure you have to finish in a couple minutes, max, or else all sorts of really bad things will happen.

mb_72 12y ago
I can't recall the expedition or details, but on one artic adventure documentary I watched a while back one of the participants took 'too long' for a number 2 (> 30s), and his 'free hand' (sans gloves) become frostbitten so badly that he had to quit. He was kicking himself over a 'noob' mistake.

kybernetyk 12y ago

>and his camera freezing wasn't something I thought modern cameras were especially prone to They are. Try using your modern DSLR in even -10C for a day. You better bring some spare batteries with you. If I were to go on a photo safari in such cold I'd bring a mechanical Leica range finder camera (possibly a model completely without any electronics) and film. At least as a backup.

seszett 12y ago
I found that NiCd batteries worked much better in the cold than the stock Li-ion batteries of my DSLR (but they're heavier).