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If Uber drivers haven't figured out yet that the company's goals are to create a huge workforce of barely-employed "contractors" who each earn just barely enoug

If Uber drivers haven't figured out yet that the company's goals are to create a huge workforce of barely-employed "contractors" who each earn just barely enough to survive (probably have negative earnings in the long run, when car depreciation is factored in - Uber knows that humans undervalue the car depreciation and don't take it into account when figuring their profits and losses), then I don't know what to tell them. They should figure that out.

golemotron 12y ago
I think calling it a 'goal' overstates it. It's a pure consequence of the model and I don't think it's possible to change because there is an Uber/Lyft duopoly now. Because they are in competition with each other, either can profit if the other incurs the cost of being more driver-friendly. Yes, there is competition for drivers and drivers influence quality. Honestly, I think that the only way these two players survive is to stratify their services: high end with good drivers vs. the college kid with a junker full of empty pizza boxes.
username223 12y ago
Yep. Uber apparently pays $1.50 per mile before its various surcharges [1], while the standard reimbursement rate for depreciation is $0.575 [2]. So employees, er, I mean "contractors" make less than $1/mi. Include the mileage driving between fares and the time waiting for a new fare, and I'll bet many drivers are below minimum wage. But that's what "disruption" looks like. [1] http://drivingforuber.com/?page_id=20 http://drivingforuber.com/?page_id=20 [2] http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/100715 http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/100715
- res0nat0r 12y ago
  Most commenting here didn't read or take into account this part: > To reassure drivers worried about lower fares, Uber said it would guarantee a minimum fare per hour for drivers in these cities.
  - username223 12y ago
    > of $12 to $24 per hour $12/hr is okay pay for sitting in a parked car, but it's below minimum wage if you drive more than about 8 miles per hour, and below no wage if you drive more than about 21.
- smm2000 12y ago
  Realistically 0.575 reimbursement rate overstates actual expenses. I have spreadsheet with all my car expenses for last 8 years inclsuding car depreciation and it works our to about 0.37/mile including gas.
3princip 12y ago
I think their long-term goal is probably to replace drivers altogether with driver-less vehicles. It might seem a long way off or even fantasy to some, but carving out a dominant market-share now will mean big profits if/once drivers are eliminated from the equation.
greggyb 12y ago
Linking my posts in a thread above[0]. The goal of Uber is to earn money by allowing utilization of the massive unused transportation capacity bound up in personal vehicles. As detailed in a child post of the linked thread, taxi-driving was not a long-term full time opportunity until many regulations (supported primarily by trolley/streetcar incumbents who could not compete with jitney service and by municipalities who could more readily collect fees/taxes from those incumbents than the jitney ecosystem) forced huge scarcity in the provision of point-to-point on-demand transport. Disclaimer: I am not claiming all was perfect, and the thread linked indicates several of the negatives, and the article[1] referenced in the other thread goes into more detail. The argument is that transportation need not be a full-time job; there is sufficient excess capacity that the primary benefit of Uber/Lyft comes not from providing a new livelihood, but in destroying a large source of deadweight loss (large sunk costs in personal vehicles with often-superfluous carrying capacity). [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8875039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8875039 [1]http://www.jstor.org/discover/724795?sid=21105612783593&uid=3739256&uid=2488599363&uid=3&uid=70&uid=60&uid=2134&uid=3739664&uid=2&uid=2488599353 http://www.jstor.org/discover/724795?sid=21105612783593&uid=...

golemotron 12y ago

I think calling it a 'goal' overstates it. It's a pure consequence of the model and I don't think it's possible to change because there is an Uber/Lyft duopoly now. Because they are in competition with each other, either can profit if the other incurs the cost of being more driver-friendly. Yes, there is competition for drivers and drivers influence quality. Honestly, I think that the only way these two players survive is to stratify their services: high end with good drivers vs. the college kid with a junker full of empty pizza boxes.

username223 12y ago

Yep. Uber apparently pays $1.50 per mile before its various surcharges [1], while the standard reimbursement rate for depreciation is $0.575 [2]. So employees, er, I mean "contractors" make less than $1/mi. Include the mileage driving between fares and the time waiting for a new fare, and I'll bet many drivers are below minimum wage. But that's what "disruption" looks like. [1] http://drivingforuber.com/?page_id=20 http://drivingforuber.com/?page_id=20 [2] http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/100715 http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/100715

res0nat0r 12y ago
Most commenting here didn't read or take into account this part: > To reassure drivers worried about lower fares, Uber said it would guarantee a minimum fare per hour for drivers in these cities.
- username223 12y ago
  > of $12 to $24 per hour $12/hr is okay pay for sitting in a parked car, but it's below minimum wage if you drive more than about 8 miles per hour, and below no wage if you drive more than about 21.
smm2000 12y ago
Realistically 0.575 reimbursement rate overstates actual expenses. I have spreadsheet with all my car expenses for last 8 years inclsuding car depreciation and it works our to about 0.37/mile including gas.

3princip 12y ago

I think their long-term goal is probably to replace drivers altogether with driver-less vehicles. It might seem a long way off or even fantasy to some, but carving out a dominant market-share now will mean big profits if/once drivers are eliminated from the equation.

greggyb 12y ago

Linking my posts in a thread above[0]. The goal of Uber is to earn money by allowing utilization of the massive unused transportation capacity bound up in personal vehicles. As detailed in a child post of the linked thread, taxi-driving was not a long-term full time opportunity until many regulations (supported primarily by trolley/streetcar incumbents who could not compete with jitney service and by municipalities who could more readily collect fees/taxes from those incumbents than the jitney ecosystem) forced huge scarcity in the provision of point-to-point on-demand transport. Disclaimer: I am not claiming all was perfect, and the thread linked indicates several of the negatives, and the article[1] referenced in the other thread goes into more detail. The argument is that transportation need not be a full-time job; there is sufficient excess capacity that the primary benefit of Uber/Lyft comes not from providing a new livelihood, but in destroying a large source of deadweight loss (large sunk costs in personal vehicles with often-superfluous carrying capacity). [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8875039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8875039 [1]http://www.jstor.org/discover/724795?sid=21105612783593&uid=3739256&uid=2488599363&uid=3&uid=70&uid=60&uid=2134&uid=3739664&uid=2&uid=2488599353 http://www.jstor.org/discover/724795?sid=21105612783593&uid=...