4 ms·

> stop seeing yourself as a lone individual developer Sorry for a gloomy vision but: 1) the 'corruption' of the modern software business is driven by business

> stop seeing yourself as a lone individual developer Sorry for a gloomy vision but: 1) the 'corruption' of the modern software business is driven by business and not technical leaders; 2) even vocal and principled engineers have kids to feed and even those without such commitments don't leave free massages in the office easily; Those of us working in larger organisations are just that when it comes to fighting for principles - hopelessly lonely.

jakewins 12y ago
I was somewhat thinking about this when I wrote that sentence actually, and it's a topic that needs its own post at the very least. That said, and with the caveat that I'm aware of the vast amounts of issues around this, I will simply say that others have thought about this problem before us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Organized_Labour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Organized_Labour
- fishnchips 12y ago
  I think organised labour sounds too 19th century to most people in the business. None of my colleagues that I surveyed in my previous (big) company was supportive of those. Trade unions of old used to fight for better working conditions and what are they to fight for in the likes of Google? Better phones for Christmas? That may be an argument until for one reason or another you run foul of your boss or some awkward company policy and then you're completely alone. I guess though today's culture of individualism and the myth of meritocracy in tech companies work very well against any idea of organised labour.
  - justin66 12y ago
    > Trade unions of old used to fight for better working conditions and what are they to fight for in the likes of Google? Better phones for Christmas? Something for software engineers at that level would, rather than being a trade union, probably resemble the professional associations doctors, lawyers or "real" engineers have. Like the ACM or IEEE except... you know.
  - pXMzR2A 12y ago
    > I think organised labour sounds too 19th century to most people in the business. Just wanted to note that this is an eccentricity specific to the US.
    - fishnchips 12y ago
      Now is it? I actually live in Ireland and most folks around me think exactly the same. The local trade union [0] is on its deathbed and I haven't heard of a single IT multinational with any form of employee representation. [0] http://www.siptu.ie/ http://www.siptu.ie/
amirmc 12y ago
Those companies start somewhere and these days are certainly driven by technical folks. Even Google was a small team once and yet the business model adopted was to harvest user data in order to target ads. Twitter took a similar route. I think it's disingenuous to attempt to separate 'business' from 'technical leaders', as if the latter have no involvement in the former. (edited: see rest of thread)
- fishnchips 12y ago
  > yet the business model now is to harvest user data in order to target ads This was their original business model. Previous to that they had none and were pretty much considered doomed.
  - amirmc 12y ago
    I edited to reflect that the business model was adopted. It doesn't alter my point.

jakewins 12y ago

I was somewhat thinking about this when I wrote that sentence actually, and it's a topic that needs its own post at the very least. That said, and with the caveat that I'm aware of the vast amounts of issues around this, I will simply say that others have thought about this problem before us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Organized_Labour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Organized_Labour

fishnchips 12y ago
I think organised labour sounds too 19th century to most people in the business. None of my colleagues that I surveyed in my previous (big) company was supportive of those. Trade unions of old used to fight for better working conditions and what are they to fight for in the likes of Google? Better phones for Christmas? That may be an argument until for one reason or another you run foul of your boss or some awkward company policy and then you're completely alone. I guess though today's culture of individualism and the myth of meritocracy in tech companies work very well against any idea of organised labour.
- justin66 12y ago
  > Trade unions of old used to fight for better working conditions and what are they to fight for in the likes of Google? Better phones for Christmas? Something for software engineers at that level would, rather than being a trade union, probably resemble the professional associations doctors, lawyers or "real" engineers have. Like the ACM or IEEE except... you know.
- pXMzR2A 12y ago
  > I think organised labour sounds too 19th century to most people in the business. Just wanted to note that this is an eccentricity specific to the US.
  - fishnchips 12y ago
    Now is it? I actually live in Ireland and most folks around me think exactly the same. The local trade union [0] is on its deathbed and I haven't heard of a single IT multinational with any form of employee representation. [0] http://www.siptu.ie/ http://www.siptu.ie/

amirmc 12y ago

Those companies start somewhere and these days are certainly driven by technical folks. Even Google was a small team once and yet the business model adopted was to harvest user data in order to target ads. Twitter took a similar route. I think it's disingenuous to attempt to separate 'business' from 'technical leaders', as if the latter have no involvement in the former. (edited: see rest of thread)

fishnchips 12y ago
> yet the business model now is to harvest user data in order to target ads This was their original business model. Previous to that they had none and were pretty much considered doomed.
- amirmc 12y ago
  I edited to reflect that the business model was adopted. It doesn't alter my point.