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Decided to start over in the bay area last year with my wife. Our housing criteria was: central to everything (I have locations of interest all over the bay), W

by lrvick 12y ago

Decided to start over in the bay area last year with my wife. Our housing criteria was: central to everything (I have locations of interest all over the bay), Within walking distance of my job (Downtown Palo Alto), 1 bedroom, low rent (under $2k/mo), 100Mb+ internet, and the ability to move in right away. Everyone told me that was impossible. EPA however met all that criteria perfectly. Landed on a Friday, picked out an apartment over the weekend, and had the keys on Monday. Unlike many areas in the bay, demand is fairly low in EPA and there are available apartments everywhere. Despite being a perfect fit for my needs, never did I realize what kind of judgement I would get from so many people for living here. I get a shocked expression almost every time I mention I live in EPA. Some people even get angry. "Why would you drag your wife to place like that?!?!". Many people I know when shopping for apartments themselves openly say there is no way they could ever live somewhere so "unsafe" and just consider my wife and I to be "lucky" or "living dangerously". The very idea that a white couple with a tech job income would -choose- to live in EPA blows peoples minds. I used to just tell people I live in Palo Alto to avoid the judgement, but now I happily claim it and discuss the misconceptions. My wife and I are pretty happy with all our ideals met. We won at housing by ignoring meaningless stigma and will be squatting here for a while. Might even buy a house while the market is still 1/4. Property value here is sure to soar once people realize the "murder capitol" age is distant history. The stigma from past history is incredibly present, but the _reality_ is this is one of the safest feeling places I have ever lived. (And I have lived a lot of places)

hueving 12y ago
Interesting. I'm hunting for a new place on the Peninsula after getting bent over a barrel by my current landlord. Have you had any issues with car breaking or other nonviolent crimes? Do you see lots of 'street youths' loitering so to speak? :)
- lrvick 12y ago
  Nothing of the sort. Mostly children playing kickball all day where I am.
e40 12y ago
Opinions change slowly, as you have found. It's part of human nature. Expect this attitude to extend into the foreseeable future, unfortunately. People like to parrot what they've heard in the past, so that tired trope will not die soon. Btw, the same things have been said about Oakland for many years. I try to tell people that the (bad) crime in Oakland is very much contained in bad areas, and most of Oakland is not bad, even downtown. Glad you found a place that you're happy with. Congrats!
lern_too_spel 12y ago
While it's not as bad as the '90s, gang violence still occurs regularly in EPA in spite of your anecdotal evidence. http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/11/11/what-are-the-bay-areas-10-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities/ http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/11/11/what-are-the-bay-area... and http://m.sfgate.com/crime/article/16-indicted-in-gang-crackdown-in-East-Palo-Alto-5344498.php http://m.sfgate.com/crime/article/16-indicted-in-gang-crackd... EPA has been a dump long before the 1950s, when this article begins its history. When Stanford opened for business, alcohol was prohibited in a one mile radius. Right outside that mile was Whiskey Gulch, where EPA began and high crime rates with it.
sophacles 12y ago
The stigma thing is sadly true of people. The place I live - a college town in IL, is in a really cool little neighborhood. 20 years ago it was solidly "the ghetto". 15 years ago the residents got sick of it and started organizing community efforts to make it a nice place. 10 years ago, the city got involved and started helping residents through policing, community and "historical districting". The people who had caused problems - prostitutes/pimps, drug dealers, gangers, started working elsewhere, and the "bad" areas contracted on themselves. A lot of folks in that lifestyle started living well instead, the rest retreated. 5 years ago I got my house for 1/2 of what the same house in other parts of town would cost. People thought I was crazy despite how much the area had changed for the better. These days the area is undergoing some gentrification, and it's sad seeing families move out to be replaced by graduate students - I like a neighborhood where there are children playing, and families hanging out. Heck, someone broke into my house once, shortly after I moved in, and the fact that there were families at home meant the cops were called and caught them in the act, rather than now, where I suspect an afternoon break-in would go unnoticed since no one is around. But despite all of that - people still say "wow, it must be scarey living over there. You have good job, upgrade out to the booneys, is being close to downtown really worth the risk?". I just laugh. And consider buying the next house up for sale to rent to grad students.
michaelochurch 12y ago
I lived in Baltimore for a year and a half. Oddly enough, the part of Baltimore I lived in was far safer than, say, Williamsburg where knife attacks and drug-related violence were still commonplace into the late 2000s (and possibly later). Baltimore's problem isn't the poor blacks. It never was. (Yes, there are some in the drug trade, just as there are some low-income whites in it.) I feel sorry for them, because they've been abandoned by the economy (deindustrialization) and the politicians, and they almost never do any harm to others. Its problem is the whites in the suburbs ("the county") who've basically abandoned the city, going in for July 4th and New Years and an occasional trip to the Aquarium but otherwise avoid never deign to live there (and, therefore, don't pay taxes and leave the city poor despite being in one of the wealthiest states in the country).
- ecspike 12y ago
  I think part of Baltimore's problem is that the great areas are very close to some not so great areas. You can have houses that have gained 100% in value and walk a couple blocks in the wrong direction and be in a bad area. Baltimore is also plagued by The Wire. More people than I can count have tried to wax philosophical about Baltimore's problems despite having never stepped a foot there. Baltimore is actually in the midst of becoming more hipster. There was a reverse flight of poor people to areas in the county when they demolished the high-rise projects and replaced them with single family homes. There are areas downtown that feel more young professional and vibrant with upscale bars and breweries.
- cafard 12y ago
  I worked in Baltimore at the end of the 1980s, not far from Penn Station. The Monday Sun usually had a handful of murders to report from the weekend, and there was a shooting (not fatal) across the street from our office one day. The reputation for violence may be out of date now, but it was well earned. Baltimore's disciplined voting habits have given it disproportionate power in the state government. The late William Donald Schaefer appeared to regard Maryland as a life support system for Baltimore, not just when he was mayor but when he was governor. I doubt it will do as well under Hogan who is a) Republican, and b) from Prince Georges County as it did under O'Malley. But yes, there are perfectly fine parts of Baltimore.

by lrvick 12y ago

hueving 12y ago

Interesting. I'm hunting for a new place on the Peninsula after getting bent over a barrel by my current landlord. Have you had any issues with car breaking or other nonviolent crimes? Do you see lots of 'street youths' loitering so to speak? :)

lrvick 12y ago
Nothing of the sort. Mostly children playing kickball all day where I am.

e40 12y ago

Opinions change slowly, as you have found. It's part of human nature. Expect this attitude to extend into the foreseeable future, unfortunately. People like to parrot what they've heard in the past, so that tired trope will not die soon. Btw, the same things have been said about Oakland for many years. I try to tell people that the (bad) crime in Oakland is very much contained in bad areas, and most of Oakland is not bad, even downtown. Glad you found a place that you're happy with. Congrats!

lern_too_spel 12y ago

While it's not as bad as the '90s, gang violence still occurs regularly in EPA in spite of your anecdotal evidence. http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/11/11/what-are-the-bay-areas-10-safest-and-most-dangerous-cities/ http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2014/11/11/what-are-the-bay-area... and http://m.sfgate.com/crime/article/16-indicted-in-gang-crackdown-in-East-Palo-Alto-5344498.php http://m.sfgate.com/crime/article/16-indicted-in-gang-crackd... EPA has been a dump long before the 1950s, when this article begins its history. When Stanford opened for business, alcohol was prohibited in a one mile radius. Right outside that mile was Whiskey Gulch, where EPA began and high crime rates with it.

sophacles 12y ago

The stigma thing is sadly true of people. The place I live - a college town in IL, is in a really cool little neighborhood. 20 years ago it was solidly "the ghetto". 15 years ago the residents got sick of it and started organizing community efforts to make it a nice place. 10 years ago, the city got involved and started helping residents through policing, community and "historical districting". The people who had caused problems - prostitutes/pimps, drug dealers, gangers, started working elsewhere, and the "bad" areas contracted on themselves. A lot of folks in that lifestyle started living well instead, the rest retreated. 5 years ago I got my house for 1/2 of what the same house in other parts of town would cost. People thought I was crazy despite how much the area had changed for the better. These days the area is undergoing some gentrification, and it's sad seeing families move out to be replaced by graduate students - I like a neighborhood where there are children playing, and families hanging out. Heck, someone broke into my house once, shortly after I moved in, and the fact that there were families at home meant the cops were called and caught them in the act, rather than now, where I suspect an afternoon break-in would go unnoticed since no one is around. But despite all of that - people still say "wow, it must be scarey living over there. You have good job, upgrade out to the booneys, is being close to downtown really worth the risk?". I just laugh. And consider buying the next house up for sale to rent to grad students.

michaelochurch 12y ago

I lived in Baltimore for a year and a half. Oddly enough, the part of Baltimore I lived in was far safer than, say, Williamsburg where knife attacks and drug-related violence were still commonplace into the late 2000s (and possibly later). Baltimore's problem isn't the poor blacks. It never was. (Yes, there are some in the drug trade, just as there are some low-income whites in it.) I feel sorry for them, because they've been abandoned by the economy (deindustrialization) and the politicians, and they almost never do any harm to others. Its problem is the whites in the suburbs ("the county") who've basically abandoned the city, going in for July 4th and New Years and an occasional trip to the Aquarium but otherwise avoid never deign to live there (and, therefore, don't pay taxes and leave the city poor despite being in one of the wealthiest states in the country).

ecspike 12y ago
I think part of Baltimore's problem is that the great areas are very close to some not so great areas. You can have houses that have gained 100% in value and walk a couple blocks in the wrong direction and be in a bad area. Baltimore is also plagued by The Wire. More people than I can count have tried to wax philosophical about Baltimore's problems despite having never stepped a foot there. Baltimore is actually in the midst of becoming more hipster. There was a reverse flight of poor people to areas in the county when they demolished the high-rise projects and replaced them with single family homes. There are areas downtown that feel more young professional and vibrant with upscale bars and breweries.
cafard 12y ago
I worked in Baltimore at the end of the 1980s, not far from Penn Station. The Monday Sun usually had a handful of murders to report from the weekend, and there was a shooting (not fatal) across the street from our office one day. The reputation for violence may be out of date now, but it was well earned. Baltimore's disciplined voting habits have given it disproportionate power in the state government. The late William Donald Schaefer appeared to regard Maryland as a life support system for Baltimore, not just when he was mayor but when he was governor. I doubt it will do as well under Hogan who is a) Republican, and b) from Prince Georges County as it did under O'Malley. But yes, there are perfectly fine parts of Baltimore.