5 ms·

Rust – “hello world” contains Lovecraft quotes

47 points by monort 12y ago

tomp 12y ago
Moreover, as pointed out by mjbshaw [1], it also contains "You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you" [2], which is apparently a The Legend of Zelda quote [3], almost certainly still under copyright. [1] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-67676376 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-... [2] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/commit/29ad8e15a2b7e2024941d74ea4ce261cb501ded9#diff-a9fca94e278fcf3b55ad199ccfdd9bdeR79 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/commit/29ad8e15a2b7e202494... [3] http://zeldawiki.org/Happy_Mask_Salesman#Powers http://zeldawiki.org/Happy_Mask_Salesman#Powers
- okasaki 12y ago
  I don't think a sentence can be copyrighted.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- krick 12y ago
  Actually, I couldn't care less if it's copyrighted or not, the sheer idea of adding some trash to binaries "for fun" is absolutely enraging in my opinion. Gosh, I don't get how anybody sane could think it's funny. I don't think that there should exist some magic command in Python which prints out "Zen of Python", but it's OK, let it be, no harm done. It's just some executable, which interprets text you passed it and does something based on what is written there. It's almost natural there's some command I don't use. It's a bit worse when some tool like ack instead of being "better grep" has a shitload of ugly ascii-art in in, because it's a bit distracting when I read the sources or even man-page, but, again, it's not that bad. Stupid, useless, but maybe it's actually my problem I don't like it. But here is a language compiler which is advertised as "as close to metal as C", "zero overhead" and stuff, and it puts some random text in my binaries! 2KB of it! It's just… marvelous! Easter Eggs are fun in GTA Vice City or something, but these are tools, goddammit. Would you like it if your hammer would have a secret life, doing something you don't expect it to do? Smashing some details when you don't see it? Well, I wouldn't. And all I expect of a hammer is, well, being hit against some surface when I do so.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >Gosh, I don't get how anybody sane could think it's funny. It's for people with a sense of humor.
    - RobertKerans 12y ago
      I dunno, I think it's more a way of stating 'this was written by a person', similar to the mouseman furniture. Whether that's appropriate or not in an OS project with multiple collaborators is debatable; I would say yes, but those disagreeing have a fair point (sadly, I feel)
  - RobertKerans 12y ago
    What if the hammer had, say, a quote stamped, in very small script, into the head, or carved at the base of the haft?
    - joosters 12y ago
      What if, say, US army gun sights had bible verses stamped on them? http://www.christianpost.com/news/u-s-military-concerned-about-guns-with-bible-verses-43411/ http://www.christianpost.com/news/u-s-military-concerned-abo...
      - RobertKerans 12y ago
        Well I never.
      - hga 12y ago
        Those aren't really "US Army" gun sights, as in the stock iron sights on the M16 and M4 rifles produced to government specifications by Colt, or now FNH since Colt has lost all their contracts. They and other designs, like my favorite the holographic EOTech, are sights designed and manufactured by independent companies that the US Army and Marines found to be useful in combat, one of the truly big advantages of our still having a serious civilian gun culture. And of course Trijicon fixed this after it was requested. Note also that these are even better Easter eggs, in that one of Trijicon's claims to fame is using tritium to provide sight illumination in the dark, hence using references (not actual quotes) to Bible verses referencing "Jesus being the light of the world" per the article. Whereas many people including myself are interested in Rust precisely because it promises to deliver us from the Lovecraftian horrors of C and C++ (although not this one: http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html).
jarcane 12y ago
The properties of Cthulhu and his Star-Spawn are a standard test case for the Heresy object system. https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/tests/things.rkt https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/tests/things.r...
functional_test 12y ago
What's the upside to this? Larger size, potential legal issues -- all for an Easter egg? People defend it, and it hasn't been taken out in 1.0, but it seems like an all downside trade. I see the value of Easter eggs, but the fact that this issue keeps coming up should be enough of a sign that it isn't worth it in this case.
tinco 12y ago
Wether or not these quotes should stay in the rust runtime should be a decision based on the concerns of the languages main stakeholder, and that's the language core developers. If the developers would lose even the littlest amount of joy or dedication to the project because their project culture is corrupted by concerns over lawyers and perceptions of irrational programmers, then that would be a significant detriment to the project. I'm not saying the developers work on Rust because there's Lovecraft quotes in there, but the Lovecraft quotes are in there because the developers are in control of the project. One of the main things that keeps you happy in a job is being in control, and there's very little things you are in control over in such a project to begin with. So what's the upside of this? It makes the developers and some users happy. You shouldn't be asking what's the upside, because it's obvious. What's the downside? 2kb of memory for people with GBs of it to spare. Embedded developers? They're not including the runtime anyway. From my perspective, the naysayers are just irrational. (As developers often are when judging their tools) edit: anyway, however fun it is to discuss this, it's not really up to us, and the majority of the core developers already reached a concensus in the first 4 comments that the quotes should go, so everyone pitching in after that is pretty much making an elephant out of a fly (including me). summary of discussion: "There's 2kb of bloat", "That's only 0.56%", "Yes, but it looks unprofessional", "Ok let's remove it", "Ok, but I loved it :("
- dlisboa 12y ago
  Show me all those projects with sad developers who abandoned contributing because they didn't include quotes in their binaries.
  - tinco 12y ago
    Sad developers who abandoned contributing: Joey Hess[0] Developer that is sad because a committee is irrationally ganging up on his loved inclusion of quotes: Steve Klabnik[1] 0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html 1] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-41917976 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-...
JonnieCache 12y ago
See also http://www.rubydoc.info/docs/rails/Array:forty_two http://www.rubydoc.info/docs/rails/Array:forty_two Not quite 2k though. Isn't there something similar in the python stdlib as well? An xkcd reference or something?
- krick 12y ago
  Yes, there's `import this`. But, as I commented below already, one thing is interpreter having command you don't use, and another — compiler, advertised as "close to metal" adding trash in your binaries.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - artursapek 12y ago
    `import antigravity`, as well.
    - ayrx 12y ago
      Not to mention `from __future__ import braces`.
  - fotcorn 12y ago
    and from __future__ import braces File "<stdin>", line 1 SyntaxError: not a chance
- arethuza 12y ago
  Also 0xCAFEBABE which is the Java class file magic number and apparently comes from a cafe frequented by James Gosling that was "a pretty funky place that was definitely a Grateful Dead Kinda Place": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_class_file#Magic_Number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_class_file#Magic_Number
- rootlocus 12y ago
  I love it how Array#forty_two equals self[41].
Cacti 12y ago
There should be an option to disable this, but otherwise, who cares? Live a little, people.
jfager 12y ago
Congratulations, haters: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/20944 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/20944
mbrock 12y ago
I hope that nobody can figure out where these quotes are coming from. Hey, that would be a good short story.
maemilius 12y ago
ITT: A bunch of programmers trying to validate themselves by removing all the fun from everything because "real professionals don't have fun at work".
- rootlocus 12y ago
  how about a compier switch --enable_easter_eggs ? This way you can choose if you want to have fun at work :D
- rootlocus 12y ago
  or better yet -Wcthulhu
sctb 12y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7678012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7678012

47 points by monort 12y ago

tomp 12y ago

Moreover, as pointed out by mjbshaw [1], it also contains "You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you" [2], which is apparently a The Legend of Zelda quote [3], almost certainly still under copyright. [1] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-67676376 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-... [2] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/commit/29ad8e15a2b7e2024941d74ea4ce261cb501ded9#diff-a9fca94e278fcf3b55ad199ccfdd9bdeR79 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/commit/29ad8e15a2b7e202494... [3] http://zeldawiki.org/Happy_Mask_Salesman#Powers http://zeldawiki.org/Happy_Mask_Salesman#Powers

okasaki 12y ago
I don't think a sentence can be copyrighted.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
krick 12y ago
Actually, I couldn't care less if it's copyrighted or not, the sheer idea of adding some trash to binaries "for fun" is absolutely enraging in my opinion. Gosh, I don't get how anybody sane could think it's funny. I don't think that there should exist some magic command in Python which prints out "Zen of Python", but it's OK, let it be, no harm done. It's just some executable, which interprets text you passed it and does something based on what is written there. It's almost natural there's some command I don't use. It's a bit worse when some tool like ack instead of being "better grep" has a shitload of ugly ascii-art in in, because it's a bit distracting when I read the sources or even man-page, but, again, it's not that bad. Stupid, useless, but maybe it's actually my problem I don't like it. But here is a language compiler which is advertised as "as close to metal as C", "zero overhead" and stuff, and it puts some random text in my binaries! 2KB of it! It's just… marvelous! Easter Eggs are fun in GTA Vice City or something, but these are tools, goddammit. Would you like it if your hammer would have a secret life, doing something you don't expect it to do? Smashing some details when you don't see it? Well, I wouldn't. And all I expect of a hammer is, well, being hit against some surface when I do so.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Gosh, I don't get how anybody sane could think it's funny. It's for people with a sense of humor.
  - RobertKerans 12y ago
    I dunno, I think it's more a way of stating 'this was written by a person', similar to the mouseman furniture. Whether that's appropriate or not in an OS project with multiple collaborators is debatable; I would say yes, but those disagreeing have a fair point (sadly, I feel)
- RobertKerans 12y ago
  What if the hammer had, say, a quote stamped, in very small script, into the head, or carved at the base of the haft?
  - joosters 12y ago
    What if, say, US army gun sights had bible verses stamped on them? http://www.christianpost.com/news/u-s-military-concerned-about-guns-with-bible-verses-43411/ http://www.christianpost.com/news/u-s-military-concerned-abo...
    - RobertKerans 12y ago
      Well I never.
    - hga 12y ago
      Those aren't really "US Army" gun sights, as in the stock iron sights on the M16 and M4 rifles produced to government specifications by Colt, or now FNH since Colt has lost all their contracts. They and other designs, like my favorite the holographic EOTech, are sights designed and manufactured by independent companies that the US Army and Marines found to be useful in combat, one of the truly big advantages of our still having a serious civilian gun culture. And of course Trijicon fixed this after it was requested. Note also that these are even better Easter eggs, in that one of Trijicon's claims to fame is using tritium to provide sight illumination in the dark, hence using references (not actual quotes) to Bible verses referencing "Jesus being the light of the world" per the article. Whereas many people including myself are interested in Rust precisely because it promises to deliver us from the Lovecraftian horrors of C and C++ (although not this one: http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html http://www.bobhobbs.com/files/kr_lovecraft.html).

jarcane 12y ago

The properties of Cthulhu and his Star-Spawn are a standard test case for the Heresy object system. https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/tests/things.rkt https://github.com/jarcane/heresy/blob/master/tests/things.r...

functional_test 12y ago

What's the upside to this? Larger size, potential legal issues -- all for an Easter egg? People defend it, and it hasn't been taken out in 1.0, but it seems like an all downside trade. I see the value of Easter eggs, but the fact that this issue keeps coming up should be enough of a sign that it isn't worth it in this case.

tinco 12y ago

Wether or not these quotes should stay in the rust runtime should be a decision based on the concerns of the languages main stakeholder, and that's the language core developers. If the developers would lose even the littlest amount of joy or dedication to the project because their project culture is corrupted by concerns over lawyers and perceptions of irrational programmers, then that would be a significant detriment to the project. I'm not saying the developers work on Rust because there's Lovecraft quotes in there, but the Lovecraft quotes are in there because the developers are in control of the project. One of the main things that keeps you happy in a job is being in control, and there's very little things you are in control over in such a project to begin with. So what's the upside of this? It makes the developers and some users happy. You shouldn't be asking what's the upside, because it's obvious. What's the downside? 2kb of memory for people with GBs of it to spare. Embedded developers? They're not including the runtime anyway. From my perspective, the naysayers are just irrational. (As developers often are when judging their tools) edit: anyway, however fun it is to discuss this, it's not really up to us, and the majority of the core developers already reached a concensus in the first 4 comments that the quotes should go, so everyone pitching in after that is pretty much making an elephant out of a fly (including me). summary of discussion: "There's 2kb of bloat", "That's only 0.56%", "Yes, but it looks unprofessional", "Ok let's remove it", "Ok, but I loved it :("

dlisboa 12y ago
Show me all those projects with sad developers who abandoned contributing because they didn't include quotes in their binaries.
- tinco 12y ago
  Sad developers who abandoned contributing: Joey Hess[0] Developer that is sad because a committee is irrationally ganging up on his loved inclusion of quotes: Steve Klabnik[1] 0] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/11/msg00174.html 1] https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-41917976 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/13871#issuecomment-...

JonnieCache 12y ago

See also http://www.rubydoc.info/docs/rails/Array:forty_two http://www.rubydoc.info/docs/rails/Array:forty_two Not quite 2k though. Isn't there something similar in the python stdlib as well? An xkcd reference or something?

krick 12y ago
Yes, there's `import this`. But, as I commented below already, one thing is interpreter having command you don't use, and another — compiler, advertised as "close to metal" adding trash in your binaries.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- artursapek 12y ago
  `import antigravity`, as well.
  - ayrx 12y ago
    Not to mention `from __future__ import braces`.
- fotcorn 12y ago
  and from __future__ import braces File "<stdin>", line 1 SyntaxError: not a chance
arethuza 12y ago
Also 0xCAFEBABE which is the Java class file magic number and apparently comes from a cafe frequented by James Gosling that was "a pretty funky place that was definitely a Grateful Dead Kinda Place": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_class_file#Magic_Number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_class_file#Magic_Number
rootlocus 12y ago
I love it how Array#forty_two equals self[41].

Cacti 12y ago

There should be an option to disable this, but otherwise, who cares? Live a little, people.

jfager 12y ago

Congratulations, haters: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/20944 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/20944

mbrock 12y ago

I hope that nobody can figure out where these quotes are coming from. Hey, that would be a good short story.

maemilius 12y ago

ITT: A bunch of programmers trying to validate themselves by removing all the fun from everything because "real professionals don't have fun at work".

rootlocus 12y ago
how about a compier switch --enable_easter_eggs ? This way you can choose if you want to have fun at work :D
rootlocus 12y ago
or better yet -Wcthulhu

sctb 12y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7678012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7678012