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HN users have traditionally been very interested in sharing their experiences in the software business (among, obviously, many other interests). If that doesn't

HN users have traditionally been very interested in sharing their experiences in the software business (among, obviously, many other interests). If that doesn't interest you, that's quite alright, but it's not "hucksterism". Also, 'patio11 is one of HN's most valued contributors (as evidenced by his position on the leaderboard). That doesn't mean that he should be exempted from any criticism, but I think in any healthy community it would at least merit a level of respect that your comment lacks.

username223 12y ago
> Also, 'patio11 is one of HN's most valued contributors... I'm guessing "kalzumeus.com" and/or "zeeshanm" is "'patio11", but I'm not plugged into the community enough to recognize this august citizen. The article reads like a sleazy, low-grade sales pitch, so I don't see why it deserves any particular respect.
- napoleond 12y ago
  Welcome to HN! I don't know 'zeeshanm. kalzumeus.com is 'patio11's domain. This is a great way to get a feel for the site and its members: https://news.ycombinator.com/lists https://news.ycombinator.com/lists You're not being down voted because of "groupthink", by the way. You're being down voted because you haven't said anything of substance.
- zeeshanm 12y ago
  Hi - I am not patio11 but I like what he writes so that's why sharing it here. Hope this helps.
- forgotten 12y ago
  It is a sleezy low grade sales pitch. You're not wrong about that imo.
teddyh 12y ago
> 'patio11 is one of HN's most valued contributors (as evidenced by his position on the leaderboard). That […] would at least merit a level of respect that your comment lacks. No. Being a person is what should afford him due respect, but being a celebrity (or “most valued contributor”) should emphatically not grant him any privileges. EDIT: Please note that I am agreeing with the fact that patio11 deserves more respect, and that username223 was disrespectful. (I am merely disagreeing with napoleond’s stated reasons for why username223 should have been more respectful.)
- napoleond 12y ago
  That is neither a description of how the world works nor is it a description of how the world should work. In human communities, social structures evolve around concepts like respect. It's anti-social for newcomers (or anyone else) to disregard those structures, regardless of whether or not it would otherwise be logical to do so. In theory, HN allows a short-cut past all the social stuff by requiring disagreements to be stated in terms of facts. Of course it doesn't always work out that way in practice, but this is not such an instance because the comment that started this sub-thread didn't provide any substance at all behind its assertions and basically amounted to name-calling. EDIT to add: Of course I agree that there is a basic level of respect that every person deserves. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to "level up" on that.
  - teddyh 12y ago
    I think two issues are being conflated here – the issue of whether one should be reasonably respectful, and the issue of whether social or other status should garner increasing respect. I only meant to disagree with you on the latter, not on the former. From the TV series Kung Fu, episode Sun and Cloud Shadow (season 1, episode 8, 1972): Master Po: “In the pond there are some lotuses which stand above the water. And though their roots feed, they are themselves untouched by it. Some others have risen only to the water's level. And others, are still under water.” Young Caine: “Shall I seek to measure these differences, Master, that I may treat them differently, each according to his growth?” Master Po: “Examine the flower. Is not the flower, in each position, yet a flower?” Young Caine: “Shall I then treat each man the same?” Master Po: “As far as possible, without surrender. Be on good terms with all.”
    - forgotten 12y ago
      Awesome reply. This made my day :)

username223 12y ago

> Also, 'patio11 is one of HN's most valued contributors... I'm guessing "kalzumeus.com" and/or "zeeshanm" is "'patio11", but I'm not plugged into the community enough to recognize this august citizen. The article reads like a sleazy, low-grade sales pitch, so I don't see why it deserves any particular respect.

napoleond 12y ago
Welcome to HN! I don't know 'zeeshanm. kalzumeus.com is 'patio11's domain. This is a great way to get a feel for the site and its members: https://news.ycombinator.com/lists https://news.ycombinator.com/lists You're not being down voted because of "groupthink", by the way. You're being down voted because you haven't said anything of substance.
zeeshanm 12y ago
Hi - I am not patio11 but I like what he writes so that's why sharing it here. Hope this helps.
forgotten 12y ago
It is a sleezy low grade sales pitch. You're not wrong about that imo.

teddyh 12y ago

> 'patio11 is one of HN's most valued contributors (as evidenced by his position on the leaderboard). That […] would at least merit a level of respect that your comment lacks. No. Being a person is what should afford him due respect, but being a celebrity (or “most valued contributor”) should emphatically not grant him any privileges. EDIT: Please note that I am agreeing with the fact that patio11 deserves more respect, and that username223 was disrespectful. (I am merely disagreeing with napoleond’s stated reasons for why username223 should have been more respectful.)

napoleond 12y ago
That is neither a description of how the world works nor is it a description of how the world should work. In human communities, social structures evolve around concepts like respect. It's anti-social for newcomers (or anyone else) to disregard those structures, regardless of whether or not it would otherwise be logical to do so. In theory, HN allows a short-cut past all the social stuff by requiring disagreements to be stated in terms of facts. Of course it doesn't always work out that way in practice, but this is not such an instance because the comment that started this sub-thread didn't provide any substance at all behind its assertions and basically amounted to name-calling. EDIT to add: Of course I agree that there is a basic level of respect that every person deserves. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to "level up" on that.
- teddyh 12y ago
  I think two issues are being conflated here – the issue of whether one should be reasonably respectful, and the issue of whether social or other status should garner increasing respect. I only meant to disagree with you on the latter, not on the former. From the TV series Kung Fu, episode Sun and Cloud Shadow (season 1, episode 8, 1972): Master Po: “In the pond there are some lotuses which stand above the water. And though their roots feed, they are themselves untouched by it. Some others have risen only to the water's level. And others, are still under water.” Young Caine: “Shall I seek to measure these differences, Master, that I may treat them differently, each according to his growth?” Master Po: “Examine the flower. Is not the flower, in each position, yet a flower?” Young Caine: “Shall I then treat each man the same?” Master Po: “As far as possible, without surrender. Be on good terms with all.”
  - forgotten 12y ago
    Awesome reply. This made my day :)