5 ms·
It's certainly a bit grim. To offer a personal perspective... > * age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year You can earn more than that
by Osmium 12y ago
It's certainly a bit grim. To offer a personal perspective...
> * age 30-35: working as a post-doc for $30,000 to $35,000 per year
You can earn more than that (and younger) if you're prepared to travel outside the US, though it's still not great. I'm hesitant to share personal details, but I'm personally in my mid-twenties and just starting a "postdoc" (in a sense; still waiting to defend my thesis), and I'm earning quite a bit more than that, albeit in an expensive city and with a large tax/student loan burden.
I'd like to do a postdoc in the US next year, but I'd have to take a large pay cut to do it, which is something I'm on the fence about–I figure you're only young once, and money isn't everything, but I can't help but feel I'd be being taken advantage of just because I happen to enjoy doing science, and the additional opportunity cost would be high too. Is it worth it? I'm not sure.
Beyond that... I wrote a much longer comment but deleted it. The fact is, academia is in an unhealthy place right now, and there's quite so much wrong with it that it's very difficult to articulate. Where do you begin? Whether to even stay in academia or leave is a question that seems to be discussed a lot lately, certainly among my colleagues, and I expect to see a lot more threads like this in the future.
Edit: Actually, I should add, that despite being in a decent place now, I had to unexpectedly work without pay for a time last year due a (ahem) 'funding hiccup.' This experience was so very terrible at the time that I'm surprised I didn't just give up on the PhD right then. To explain: in the UK, STEM funding is typically 3 years, and when that runs out you're in trouble: you can't go and get another job because you need to finish your thesis to get your PhD. Most people can't finish a PhD in 3 years (unsurprisingly). Some people manage to get extra funding from somewhere or start postdocs while still technically writing-up, but most people don't. Some people are told there will be extra funding which never materialises, or doesn't arrive on time. Several of my friends ended up going back home to live with their parents to write-up (and are still there); this is not uncommon. I know someone else who ended up living in a hostel. Once you've started the PhD you're invested, and the longer you do it the harder it is to walk away. The real kicker to me is that a lot of people accept this and think it's okay.
- cozzyd 12y agoThe situation in bio seems dire, but in physics our postdocs are typically $50k+ (obviously depends on where).
- thejteam 12y agoEven in Bio it is not that bad. It took my brother an extra year than he wanted to find a post-doc(cell biology), but he is making over 40k in an affordable midwestern city. It's good enough that he can rent a 2 bedroom townhome by himself in a nice part of town.
- Fomite 12y agoBio is dire for two reasons, IMO: 1. NIH stipend levels are pretty low. When you talk to people on NSF or DoD funding, they're like "You pay your postdocs what!?" 2. There are fewer "eject" options. Physics, for example, has a long and established pipeline into finance. The group I'm with does lots of work on complex networks - that has applications in tech. Bio work, for the most part, leaves you qualified to do bio work. So there's both less salary pressure for "We have to pay you or you'll go work for tech instead" and the feeling of your education being a sunk cost.
- 0xgrr 12y agoDon't worry about the stipend levels. Many institutions are now in a race to the bottom where they're adapting to paying everyone the minimum allowed by NIH.
- Osmium 12y agoIt's good to know. The ones I've looked at (physics-y) were about $32k, but maybe they were especially bad. This was at a public institution (one of the UCs), if that makes any difference.
- DaveWalk 12y ago>Where do you begin? Whether to even stay in academia or leave is a question that seems to be discussed a lot The best thing you can do for your career is decide, right this minute, what you want to do. Do it as soon as humanly psosible. The reason, I suspect, that this issue is cropping up is that graduate schools are incredibly bad at career development, and it will take at least an entire generation before the culture changes completely. Administrators in general are doing their absolute best and that's a great step. But it's the lab leaders/PIs that are culturally stuck in the past. Source: recent PhD in biological sciences, spent years improving career development at school, have Real Job now