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>I've tried to be a helpful force in a few coder's lives, but something prevents them from taking the advice to heart, and instead of getting better, they just

by jnbiche 12y ago

>I've tried to be a helpful force in a few coder's lives, but something prevents them from taking the advice to heart, and instead of getting better, they just stop coming to me. Why do you think that is? (Sincere question)

Kalium 12y ago
There's a surprisingly large number of coders who believe themselves much better than they are. Giving them useful feedback, no matter how supportive or positive, is extremely difficult.
- pekk 12y ago
  How did you determine that you are not one of the coders who believe themselves better than they are? Because if you are misled about your own ability, you might also be misled about which feedback is useful. Is it possible that there is a surprisingly large number of coders who believe their feedback more useful than it is? If coder feedback tends to be useful, then isn't it likely that meta-feedback on the usefulness of feedback is useful?
  - Kalium 12y ago
    Then suddenly it becomes impossible to offer any feedback. Or discuss offering feedback. Or discuss even the possibility of feedback. ----- How do you feel about goldfish?
DenisM 12y ago
Most people ignore the advice they are given, that's just how people are. They have to come to a conclusion under their own power, or else it just won't stick. There are exceptions that should be studied to understand the phenomenon. One thing I know there are people who will diligently take and address feedback, but only of one particular kind. For example, where I worked at Microsoft code review feedback was sacred - you never complained about it unless it was demonstrably, factually wrong, and you did as you were told. There probably were people who didn't follow these rules, but if so they did not last very long. Another example is master/apprentice relationship, where apprentice relegates his creative autonomy to the master for certain duration. This is largely imaginary at this point, as I've never seen this happen myself, but it's worth looking into. Yet another example is people's reliance on authority status - when an authority says something, many people are inclined to believe it just because. You will note these are all exceptions to the rule however. Outside of these narrowly defined areas, people largely ignore any advice they are given. It is for that reason many people who have something to say keep it to themselves - they don't want to waste their time. Sometimes I bump into someone misguided and I just look at them smiling politely without saying much. Sometimes I also see people smiling politely at me, when that happens I try to unwind last few minutes of my words to see what could have gone wrong...

by jnbiche 12y ago

Kalium 12y ago

There's a surprisingly large number of coders who believe themselves much better than they are. Giving them useful feedback, no matter how supportive or positive, is extremely difficult.

pekk 12y ago
How did you determine that you are not one of the coders who believe themselves better than they are? Because if you are misled about your own ability, you might also be misled about which feedback is useful. Is it possible that there is a surprisingly large number of coders who believe their feedback more useful than it is? If coder feedback tends to be useful, then isn't it likely that meta-feedback on the usefulness of feedback is useful?
- Kalium 12y ago
  Then suddenly it becomes impossible to offer any feedback. Or discuss offering feedback. Or discuss even the possibility of feedback. ----- How do you feel about goldfish?

DenisM 12y ago

Most people ignore the advice they are given, that's just how people are. They have to come to a conclusion under their own power, or else it just won't stick. There are exceptions that should be studied to understand the phenomenon. One thing I know there are people who will diligently take and address feedback, but only of one particular kind. For example, where I worked at Microsoft code review feedback was sacred - you never complained about it unless it was demonstrably, factually wrong, and you did as you were told. There probably were people who didn't follow these rules, but if so they did not last very long. Another example is master/apprentice relationship, where apprentice relegates his creative autonomy to the master for certain duration. This is largely imaginary at this point, as I've never seen this happen myself, but it's worth looking into. Yet another example is people's reliance on authority status - when an authority says something, many people are inclined to believe it just because. You will note these are all exceptions to the rule however. Outside of these narrowly defined areas, people largely ignore any advice they are given. It is for that reason many people who have something to say keep it to themselves - they don't want to waste their time. Sometimes I bump into someone misguided and I just look at them smiling politely without saying much. Sometimes I also see people smiling politely at me, when that happens I try to unwind last few minutes of my words to see what could have gone wrong...