5 ms·

Nice idea, but the final effect will be higher prices across the higher-ed system.

by _red 12y ago

mtimjones 12y ago
Absolutely right. The $800 billion owed in tuition reimbursement, which will eventually be forgiven given the current climate, is the reason govt needs to stay out of education.
- mjevans 12y ago
  Or just outright make this the equivalent of high school, but for students that actually /want/ to be there, instead of whom are /required/ to be there. That, and sports distractions instead of academic pursuits, are the most grievous reasons 'High School' isn't fulfilling the role that '2 years of community college' is supposed to provide.
  - brenschluss 12y ago
    > The proposal would cover half-time and full-time students who maintain a 2.5 grade point average and “make steady progress toward completing a program,” White House officials said. So it will be performance based, rewarding only those students who have a good grade, incentivizing studying.
- therealdrag0 12y ago
  What if it was done like healthcare, something like where the government caps the tuition they're willing to spend per student and negotiates lower tuitions by having numbers? I that possible? Maybe that would force universities to cut costs. But would that be so bad? I feel like a lot of university spending is trying to be fancy to attract more students not because it's valuable to student learning or well-being.
  - sukilot 12y ago
    What you are describing is the phenomenally successful 20th Century state and city college system, which was destroyed by the baby boomers
  - sukilot 12y ago
    What you are describing is the phenomenally successful 20th Century state and city college system, which was destroyed by the baby boomers
MCRed 12y ago
Since government started subsidizing higher eduction by underwriting student loans, college tuition has risen much faster than inflation, both for private and public schools. At the same time, more and more people have gone to college and the value of a college degree has declined, as more people enter the marketplace with them. Anecdotally, it appears (from the college graduates I've interviewed) that the quality of a college education has also declined noticeably in the past 30 years. All of these are unintended consequences, but not surprising results when you look at the situation from the perspective of economics.
- cantankerous 12y ago
  True, but when you talk about the perspective of economics, it behooves you to talk about demand, I think. The broad based demand for a college education is based on the irrational thinking that so many should have a college education in order to work, which is pretty much untrue. It's hard to argue that the quality of a college education has declined when its purpose has changed. So many folks just need a college degree to remain competitive, at least on paper, and not much else. I think this is a much more modern trend. Perhaps one could make the case that the low cost of a college education somehow spurred this irrational demand for it. So many people have set off to set themselves apart with a degree that now only substandard prospective workers don't have them.
  - dikaiosune 12y ago
    Perhaps the demand is irrational, but the effects are very real: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm It would be nice if we could change the fundamental problems underlying that irrational demand (pre-college schooling which doesn't prepare students for work, a national obsession with white collar jobs, etc.). However, if I was staring down a big wealth gap and decided to propose a concrete policy shift to resolve some of it, I think that it's not a bad idea to get people moved from the 7-11% unemployment category to the 5.4% unemployment category.
    - thaumasiotes 12y ago
utnick 12y ago
If its free to go to a community college, won't 4 year universities have to keep their prices lower or people will just decide to go to community college for free.
- nkangoh 12y ago
  That would only be true if community college were an equivalent alternative. Unfortunately it is not. Unless you care about education for education's sake and nothing of jobs or career prospects, then a well motivated individual could learn a ton at a community college.
  - clavalle 12y ago
    In the community colleges in my state (Texas) they make sure credits can transfer to UT, A&M and other Universities. So they are equivalent in terms of those classes (typically at freshman or sophomore level).
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - bane 12y ago
      This is true in most states. The various CC systems in CA should transfer cleanly into the University of California system, same for SUNY, University of Virginia system and other public college systems. The classes are absolutely equivalent to the Fresh and Sophomore classes and an A.S. degree from a CC should start you as a Junior at the big-kid school.
    - johnpowell 12y ago
      Same in Oregon. I did what is called a AAOT which basically guarantees that you will be admitted as a junior at any four year school in the state. And to be honest I didn't care all that much about the quality of the education since the first two years I was taking a bunch of General Education requirements that didn't really apply to my degree. And a lot of trades come up through community colleges. The one here has two year degrees for auto mechanics, aircraft mechanics, HVAC, welders, CAD, CNC, plumbing, electricians, and so on. My bet is Obama is more concerned about that aspect of the program than people transferring to four year schools.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

Nice idea, but the final effect will be higher prices across the higher-ed system.

by _red 12y ago

Nice idea, but the final effect will be higher prices across the higher-ed system.

Absolutely right. The $800 billion owed in tuition reimbursement, which will eventually be forgiven given the current climate, is the reason govt needs to stay out of education.

mjevans 12y ago
Or just outright make this the equivalent of high school, but for students that actually /want/ to be there, instead of whom are /required/ to be there. That, and sports distractions instead of academic pursuits, are the most grievous reasons 'High School' isn't fulfilling the role that '2 years of community college' is supposed to provide.
- brenschluss 12y ago
  > The proposal would cover half-time and full-time students who maintain a 2.5 grade point average and “make steady progress toward completing a program,” White House officials said. So it will be performance based, rewarding only those students who have a good grade, incentivizing studying.
therealdrag0 12y ago
What if it was done like healthcare, something like where the government caps the tuition they're willing to spend per student and negotiates lower tuitions by having numbers? I that possible? Maybe that would force universities to cut costs. But would that be so bad? I feel like a lot of university spending is trying to be fancy to attract more students not because it's valuable to student learning or well-being.
- sukilot 12y ago
  What you are describing is the phenomenally successful 20th Century state and city college system, which was destroyed by the baby boomers
- sukilot 12y ago
  What you are describing is the phenomenally successful 20th Century state and city college system, which was destroyed by the baby boomers

MCRed 12y ago

Since government started subsidizing higher eduction by underwriting student loans, college tuition has risen much faster than inflation, both for private and public schools. At the same time, more and more people have gone to college and the value of a college degree has declined, as more people enter the marketplace with them. Anecdotally, it appears (from the college graduates I've interviewed) that the quality of a college education has also declined noticeably in the past 30 years. All of these are unintended consequences, but not surprising results when you look at the situation from the perspective of economics.

cantankerous 12y ago
True, but when you talk about the perspective of economics, it behooves you to talk about demand, I think. The broad based demand for a college education is based on the irrational thinking that so many should have a college education in order to work, which is pretty much untrue. It's hard to argue that the quality of a college education has declined when its purpose has changed. So many folks just need a college degree to remain competitive, at least on paper, and not much else. I think this is a much more modern trend. Perhaps one could make the case that the low cost of a college education somehow spurred this irrational demand for it. So many people have set off to set themselves apart with a degree that now only substandard prospective workers don't have them.
- dikaiosune 12y ago
  Perhaps the demand is irrational, but the effects are very real: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm It would be nice if we could change the fundamental problems underlying that irrational demand (pre-college schooling which doesn't prepare students for work, a national obsession with white collar jobs, etc.). However, if I was staring down a big wealth gap and decided to propose a concrete policy shift to resolve some of it, I think that it's not a bad idea to get people moved from the 7-11% unemployment category to the 5.4% unemployment category.
  - thaumasiotes 12y ago

utnick 12y ago

If its free to go to a community college, won't 4 year universities have to keep their prices lower or people will just decide to go to community college for free.

nkangoh 12y ago
That would only be true if community college were an equivalent alternative. Unfortunately it is not. Unless you care about education for education's sake and nothing of jobs or career prospects, then a well motivated individual could learn a ton at a community college.
- clavalle 12y ago
  In the community colleges in my state (Texas) they make sure credits can transfer to UT, A&M and other Universities. So they are equivalent in terms of those classes (typically at freshman or sophomore level).
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - bane 12y ago
    This is true in most states. The various CC systems in CA should transfer cleanly into the University of California system, same for SUNY, University of Virginia system and other public college systems. The classes are absolutely equivalent to the Fresh and Sophomore classes and an A.S. degree from a CC should start you as a Junior at the big-kid school.
  - johnpowell 12y ago
    Same in Oregon. I did what is called a AAOT which basically guarantees that you will be admitted as a junior at any four year school in the state. And to be honest I didn't care all that much about the quality of the education since the first two years I was taking a bunch of General Education requirements that didn't really apply to my degree. And a lot of trades come up through community colleges. The one here has two year degrees for auto mechanics, aircraft mechanics, HVAC, welders, CAD, CNC, plumbing, electricians, and so on. My bet is Obama is more concerned about that aspect of the program than people transferring to four year schools.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]