6 ms·

The Problem with Music (1993)

65 points by bootload 12y ago

molecule 12y ago
> FROM The Baffler No. 5 1993 http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has-been-solved-by-the-internet/ http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has... > ‘The Problem With Music’ has been solved by the internet (2014)
- wwweston 12y ago
  Albini was in a really good position to see the problems of the pre-digital industry, and he wrote about them well. And he's right that the problem of distribution and crappy old gatekeepers has been solved. He's absolutely wrong to the extent that he thinks all the problems of music have been solved (or that he holds the opinion that "bands will make it up in t-shirt sales and mumblehandwave business models!"). And I doubt he's in a great position to see the current problems: * He probably has a circle/network of people who solved the problems of attention and gaining patronizing fans earlier (sure, he probably does production for and has some acquaintances from now, but the primary circle that mediates his experience is probably older). * I'm not sure the collusion between high profile services and labels is as easy to see (because it's partly an adversarial/opportunistic relationship to begin with). And streaming services tend to be better for older acts with a catalogue and established audiences (who benefited from recording revenue back when that could be a thing and aren't producing new recordings now).
  - mrcsparker 12y ago
    He is wrong about jazz, too. It doesn't suck (same with Zappa, post-Mothers). I try not to judge him too much on this, but it colors my opinion of his opinions a bit - what musician hates jazz? Then again, I am not a fan of Shellac or his other music, so I am probably missing something. In 10 years I might be telling people how wonderful Shellac is, and it might just click for me - that is the wonderful thing about art. I wish that there was a world where musicians could make great music without having to tour and make money. Some music doesn't need to be structured to be played live. Edited for clarity and I was too harsh.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
yoctonaut 12y ago
(Nearly) full text of what Steve said here: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albinis-keynote-address-at-face-the-music-in-full http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albinis-k...
- bootload 12y ago
  The Guardian article is a worthy read because it expands on what actually happened. I went straight to the '93 source. What is interesting is the text isn't tainted by references to future technology. It's sort of an anthropological view of the state of music around the time of 'Nevermind' (DGC/Geffin Sep, '91). The record company, DGC Records (Geffin) wielded enormous power. Read through the artists on these labels: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records> and <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records>. [0] Contrast the state of affairs of the early 90's Steve describes to now. [0] Power enough to sue Neil Young in '85 for not producing albums were "unrepresentative" ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Young#Experimental_years_.281980.E2.80.931988.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Young#Experimental_years_...
- bkeroack 12y ago
  That's a great article, thank you. I had read the original linked article a while ago but never saw this one.
thoughtsimple 12y ago
I got to DAT and realized we were talking pre-Internet.
- bootload 12y ago
  sorry, I changed the title to reflect this.
Jgrubb 12y ago
I respect the hell out of some of Steve Albini's work, but to avoid ending up a bitter old industry fuck like the guy who wrote this article is the reason I quit the music business. Also, FYI, there's a whole other music industry out there built around playing live shows, and almost none of these tired cliches and horror stories apply. There are different cliches and horror stories, but the bands are much more in control of their destinies and the career is (in a sense) more sustainable.
- bootload 12y ago
  "... There are different cliches and horror stories, but the bands are much more in control of their destinies and the career is (in a sense) more sustainable. ..." Q Do the bands you mention maintain control of their masters? I'm seeing the cliche-bands being burnt again with their record companies either not keeping the master recordings or compromising them. A real problem if they want to re-release in high quality digital format.
  - Jgrubb 12y ago
    Since the majority of their income comes from playing shows, and since it's no secret that "real" record labels have no idea what to do with any of these bands (since they're primarily live bands) there's almost no financial incentive for them to sign labels deals in the first place. Most of them start their own "label" and keep everything for themselves. A smart banjo player I know summed up every record deal like this -- "It's a 90/10 split, all charges go to the 10". Unless you play the style of music that labels know how to market to the point that you can actually turn a profit with that kind of deal, what's the point?
    - bootload 12y ago
      "... Most of them start their own "label" and keep everything for themselves. ..." Courtney Barnett (Milk records) does exactly that ~ http://www.yenmag.net/music/courtney-barnett/ http://www.yenmag.net/music/courtney-barnett/ and http://www.milkrecords.com.au/ http://www.milkrecords.com.au/ I asked this Q because this was one piece of advice David Briggs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Briggs_%28producer%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Briggs_%28producer%29) gave NY and Crazy horse - "Never give up the master tapes."
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
baddox 12y ago
> Producers and engineers who use meaningless words to make their clients think they know what’s going on. Words like “Punchy,” “Warm,” “Groove,” “Vibe,” “Feel.” Especially “Punchy” and “Warm.” Every time I hear those words, I want to throttle somebody. Sounds like every single person on any online forum or community related to music, audio production, or audio hardware.
- CyberPants 12y ago
  I imagine punchy is the opposite of muddled?
spennant 12y ago
Back in 2000, Courtney Love did the math too... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2742303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2742303) I'd like to hear what she thinks now.
sravfeyn 12y ago
May be 'The Problem with Music Industry' is more reflective of the article.
- OscarCunningham 12y ago
  Yes, the problem with music is that log_2(3) is irrational...
cthulha 12y ago
His latest speech was a couple of weeks ago in Melbourne, Australia, and follows through on what he has seen since then as the internet has changed music: http://genius.com/Steve-albini-keynote-address-at-melbourne-australias-face-the-music-conference-2014-annotated http://genius.com/Steve-albini-keynote-address-at-melbourne-...
CyberPants 12y ago
Bandcamp digital pay-what-you-what, live shows/festivals/events, and artwork bundles with album sales seem to be the model of most of my favorite dedicated musicians. If you like an artist, support their work.
je42 12y ago
Hollywood accounting -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting . I also would like to note it happens not only in the music/movie industry.
peterob27 12y ago
I think a lot of good artists go through the similar problems. Finding record labels who are willing to sign you up for an exclusive contract is difficult. How much more with the filtering A&R reps do.

65 points by bootload 12y ago

> FROM The Baffler No. 5 1993 http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has-been-solved-by-the-internet/ http://qz.com/202194/steve-albini-the-problem-with-music-has... > ‘The Problem With Music’ has been solved by the internet (2014)

wwweston 12y ago
Albini was in a really good position to see the problems of the pre-digital industry, and he wrote about them well. And he's right that the problem of distribution and crappy old gatekeepers has been solved. He's absolutely wrong to the extent that he thinks all the problems of music have been solved (or that he holds the opinion that "bands will make it up in t-shirt sales and mumblehandwave business models!"). And I doubt he's in a great position to see the current problems: * He probably has a circle/network of people who solved the problems of attention and gaining patronizing fans earlier (sure, he probably does production for and has some acquaintances from now, but the primary circle that mediates his experience is probably older). * I'm not sure the collusion between high profile services and labels is as easy to see (because it's partly an adversarial/opportunistic relationship to begin with). And streaming services tend to be better for older acts with a catalogue and established audiences (who benefited from recording revenue back when that could be a thing and aren't producing new recordings now).
- mrcsparker 12y ago
  He is wrong about jazz, too. It doesn't suck (same with Zappa, post-Mothers). I try not to judge him too much on this, but it colors my opinion of his opinions a bit - what musician hates jazz? Then again, I am not a fan of Shellac or his other music, so I am probably missing something. In 10 years I might be telling people how wonderful Shellac is, and it might just click for me - that is the wonderful thing about art. I wish that there was a world where musicians could make great music without having to tour and make money. Some music doesn't need to be structured to be played live. Edited for clarity and I was too harsh.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

yoctonaut 12y ago

(Nearly) full text of what Steve said here: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albinis-keynote-address-at-face-the-music-in-full http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albinis-k...

bootload 12y ago
The Guardian article is a worthy read because it expands on what actually happened. I went straight to the '93 source. What is interesting is the text isn't tainted by references to future technology. It's sort of an anthropological view of the state of music around the time of 'Nevermind' (DGC/Geffin Sep, '91). The record company, DGC Records (Geffin) wielded enormous power. Read through the artists on these labels: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records> and <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DGC_Records>. [0] Contrast the state of affairs of the early 90's Steve describes to now. [0] Power enough to sue Neil Young in '85 for not producing albums were "unrepresentative" ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Young#Experimental_years_.281980.E2.80.931988.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Young#Experimental_years_...
bkeroack 12y ago
That's a great article, thank you. I had read the original linked article a while ago but never saw this one.

thoughtsimple 12y ago

I got to DAT and realized we were talking pre-Internet.

bootload 12y ago
sorry, I changed the title to reflect this.

Jgrubb 12y ago

I respect the hell out of some of Steve Albini's work, but to avoid ending up a bitter old industry fuck like the guy who wrote this article is the reason I quit the music business. Also, FYI, there's a whole other music industry out there built around playing live shows, and almost none of these tired cliches and horror stories apply. There are different cliches and horror stories, but the bands are much more in control of their destinies and the career is (in a sense) more sustainable.

bootload 12y ago
"... There are different cliches and horror stories, but the bands are much more in control of their destinies and the career is (in a sense) more sustainable. ..." Q Do the bands you mention maintain control of their masters? I'm seeing the cliche-bands being burnt again with their record companies either not keeping the master recordings or compromising them. A real problem if they want to re-release in high quality digital format.
- Jgrubb 12y ago
  Since the majority of their income comes from playing shows, and since it's no secret that "real" record labels have no idea what to do with any of these bands (since they're primarily live bands) there's almost no financial incentive for them to sign labels deals in the first place. Most of them start their own "label" and keep everything for themselves. A smart banjo player I know summed up every record deal like this -- "It's a 90/10 split, all charges go to the 10". Unless you play the style of music that labels know how to market to the point that you can actually turn a profit with that kind of deal, what's the point?
  - bootload 12y ago
    "... Most of them start their own "label" and keep everything for themselves. ..." Courtney Barnett (Milk records) does exactly that ~ http://www.yenmag.net/music/courtney-barnett/ http://www.yenmag.net/music/courtney-barnett/ and http://www.milkrecords.com.au/ http://www.milkrecords.com.au/ I asked this Q because this was one piece of advice David Briggs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Briggs_%28producer%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Briggs_%28producer%29) gave NY and Crazy horse - "Never give up the master tapes."

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

baddox 12y ago

> Producers and engineers who use meaningless words to make their clients think they know what’s going on. Words like “Punchy,” “Warm,” “Groove,” “Vibe,” “Feel.” Especially “Punchy” and “Warm.” Every time I hear those words, I want to throttle somebody. Sounds like every single person on any online forum or community related to music, audio production, or audio hardware.

CyberPants 12y ago
I imagine punchy is the opposite of muddled?

spennant 12y ago

Back in 2000, Courtney Love did the math too... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2742303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2742303) I'd like to hear what she thinks now.

sravfeyn 12y ago

May be 'The Problem with Music Industry' is more reflective of the article.

OscarCunningham 12y ago
Yes, the problem with music is that log_2(3) is irrational...

cthulha 12y ago

His latest speech was a couple of weeks ago in Melbourne, Australia, and follows through on what he has seen since then as the internet has changed music: http://genius.com/Steve-albini-keynote-address-at-melbourne-australias-face-the-music-conference-2014-annotated http://genius.com/Steve-albini-keynote-address-at-melbourne-...

CyberPants 12y ago

Bandcamp digital pay-what-you-what, live shows/festivals/events, and artwork bundles with album sales seem to be the model of most of my favorite dedicated musicians. If you like an artist, support their work.

je42 12y ago

Hollywood accounting -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting . I also would like to note it happens not only in the music/movie industry.

peterob27 12y ago

I think a lot of good artists go through the similar problems. Finding record labels who are willing to sign you up for an exclusive contract is difficult. How much more with the filtering A&R reps do.