4 ms·

"Not a fit" can get dangerously close to "You're not the same gender/race/orientation/age-range as our core team" (especially if that happens to be true).

by jlees 12y ago

daniel_iversen 12y ago
Yes that is a super tricky one and especially since cultural fit is probably one of the most important things to consider in the hiring process!!
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  Can you elaborate on what you consider cultural fit and why it is so important?
  - JoshTriplett 12y ago
    "cultural fit" is a rather awful description of a hundred small factors, some legitimate and some not. Sometimes it refers to statements like "commit early, commit often" or "move fast and break things"; that's fine. Sometimes it refers to office interaction, such as whether you tolerate interruptions and social interaction: an introvert in an office full of extroverts or an extrovert in an office full of introverts; that's fine too, though at some point you'll scale large enough that you can't necessarily keep being that selective. On the other hand, sometimes it means "are you going to play foosball with us and drink with us", which is wrong. And sometimes it means "do you have exactly the same personality/likes/dislikes/ethnicity/gender/etc as us", which is wrong and illegal. In general, "cultural fit" is a dangerously vague excuse without a concrete reason. Say what you really mean, and if you can't bring yourself to say it, perhaps you shouldn't be using it as a hiring criteria.
UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
Or... you're not a potential drinking buddy. ;) http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/12/03/employers-hire-potential-drinking-buddies-ahead-of-top-candidates/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/12/03/employers-...
- stretchwithme 12y ago
  Believe it or not, I was actually asked if I liked to drink. And I don't really drink.
  - UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
    So, were you offered the job? Which is why I try to avoid all types of personal questions as much as possible. I do not want to take if you like squash or knitting or beer into account when I evaluate you as a potential hire. So if i don't know, it can't subconsciously affect my opinion of you. I am interested in your job performance.
- jlees 12y ago
  I specifically meant the prohibited criteria, though I suppose as not drinking could be due to health or religion, it's also in a grey area... Could you sue someone for not hiring you because you don't fit in at the frat house?

"Not a fit" can get dangerously close to "You're not the same gender/race/orientation/age-range as our core team" (especially if that happens to be true).

by jlees 12y ago

"Not a fit" can get dangerously close to "You're not the same gender/race/orientation/age-range as our core team" (especially if that happens to be true).

daniel_iversen 12y ago

Yes that is a super tricky one and especially since cultural fit is probably one of the most important things to consider in the hiring process!!

UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
Can you elaborate on what you consider cultural fit and why it is so important?
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  "cultural fit" is a rather awful description of a hundred small factors, some legitimate and some not. Sometimes it refers to statements like "commit early, commit often" or "move fast and break things"; that's fine. Sometimes it refers to office interaction, such as whether you tolerate interruptions and social interaction: an introvert in an office full of extroverts or an extrovert in an office full of introverts; that's fine too, though at some point you'll scale large enough that you can't necessarily keep being that selective. On the other hand, sometimes it means "are you going to play foosball with us and drink with us", which is wrong. And sometimes it means "do you have exactly the same personality/likes/dislikes/ethnicity/gender/etc as us", which is wrong and illegal. In general, "cultural fit" is a dangerously vague excuse without a concrete reason. Say what you really mean, and if you can't bring yourself to say it, perhaps you shouldn't be using it as a hiring criteria.

UrMomReadsHN 12y ago

Or... you're not a potential drinking buddy. ;) http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/12/03/employers-hire-potential-drinking-buddies-ahead-of-top-candidates/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/12/03/employers-...

stretchwithme 12y ago
Believe it or not, I was actually asked if I liked to drink. And I don't really drink.
- UrMomReadsHN 12y ago
  So, were you offered the job? Which is why I try to avoid all types of personal questions as much as possible. I do not want to take if you like squash or knitting or beer into account when I evaluate you as a potential hire. So if i don't know, it can't subconsciously affect my opinion of you. I am interested in your job performance.
jlees 12y ago
I specifically meant the prohibited criteria, though I suppose as not drinking could be due to health or religion, it's also in a grey area... Could you sue someone for not hiring you because you don't fit in at the frat house?