4 ms·

Ah yes, the Israeli shills. They're well documented in various NGO and also official formats, and any discussion of Israel on popular message boards is certain

Ah yes, the Israeli shills. They're well documented in various NGO and also official formats, and any discussion of Israel on popular message boards is certain to draw their attention and attendant misdirection. You are correct in identifying that the Israeli shill army comes out most frequently during Israeli geopolitical moves, most recently in their invasion and bombing of Gaza. The rabidity of the Israeli shills isn't even the problem-- they're easy to spot, and their attacks on almost anyone discussing the issue are transparently biased. The real problem is that even when Israel is not in wartime, the shills still operate at a reduced level, trying to shape a public discussion milieu that is pro-Israel and refuses to recognize any kind of subtlety. People notice that they get attacked when they criticize Israel online, and eventually they keep quiet.

freshhawk 12y ago
I'm not sure I buy that all of them are easy to spot. If we worked there we would both immediately realize that you'd want a diversity of rabidity. And once it was public you'd want very easily identified shills to make your reasonable shills seem more reasonable and move the Overton window. These are the successors to cold war game theory think tank people after all.
tokenadult 12y ago
People notice that they get attacked when they criticize Israel online, and eventually they keep quiet. I haven't seen examples of this. I post quite critical stories about Israel's policies (some from the press in Israel, others from places around the world) on my Facebook wall, and not even my Facebook friends who occasionally display Israeli flags as Facebook profile photos seem to mind. Here on Hacker News, the one country that people can "attack" almost with impunity is the United States, but of course every United States citizen, including me too, has plenty to criticize the United States about, so all I ask is that criticism be factual and made with some international perspective. I think most Israeli citizens, and for the most part operatives of the Israeli government, have the same approach: criticize what deserves criticism, and give us a chance to discuss the policies of our country openly, but don't ignore the rest of the world in the process.
- monocasa 12y ago
  I haven't seen it on hacker news, but have seen it on reddit and Facebook. Facebook I can see depending significantly more on your specific social network.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
guscost 12y ago
I'd expect to see at least a scattered amount of online PSYOP from military organizations in Israel or the United States[0] or many other countries. It would be wise to keep the following in mind before deciding which ones should change how they're doing it: - Every one of these organizations is in some secret or not-so-secret budget under "psychological operations." In one form or another this has been considered a normal part of warfare since Sun Tzu. - Every one of these organizations would say that "criticizing our country online means attacking its reputation" and that "we are defending our country by posting counter-arguments." - Serious long-term damage happens to any PSYOP group that habitually spreads false information. The fact that the people at many of these organizations certainly know this does not mean that they would never spread false information, just that doing so would make them very bad at their jobs. [0] http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1070&context=jpps http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...
cbd1984 12y ago
> People notice that they get attacked when they criticize Israel online, and eventually they keep quiet. Or maybe it's that the people who claim they're just attacking Israel are really attacking Jews in general, and most people don't respond well to having anti-Semitic turds dumped in their conversational punchbowl.
- cryoshon 12y ago
  This is one of the tropes the shills abuse en masse over and over again, FYI-- the conflation of criticizing Israel's policies and actions with the hatred of Jews. Israel and Jews are not the same entity, it's entirely possible (even probable) to disprove of Israel and approve of Jews. As an example, I am married to a Jew, but detest Israel's foreign policy and the way it tends to drag the USA around.
  - hobs 12y ago
    But how much are you "married" to a jew, really?
    - cryoshon 12y ago
      100% in the eyes of the law ;)

freshhawk 12y ago

I'm not sure I buy that all of them are easy to spot. If we worked there we would both immediately realize that you'd want a diversity of rabidity. And once it was public you'd want very easily identified shills to make your reasonable shills seem more reasonable and move the Overton window. These are the successors to cold war game theory think tank people after all.

tokenadult 12y ago

People notice that they get attacked when they criticize Israel online, and eventually they keep quiet. I haven't seen examples of this. I post quite critical stories about Israel's policies (some from the press in Israel, others from places around the world) on my Facebook wall, and not even my Facebook friends who occasionally display Israeli flags as Facebook profile photos seem to mind. Here on Hacker News, the one country that people can "attack" almost with impunity is the United States, but of course every United States citizen, including me too, has plenty to criticize the United States about, so all I ask is that criticism be factual and made with some international perspective. I think most Israeli citizens, and for the most part operatives of the Israeli government, have the same approach: criticize what deserves criticism, and give us a chance to discuss the policies of our country openly, but don't ignore the rest of the world in the process.

monocasa 12y ago
I haven't seen it on hacker news, but have seen it on reddit and Facebook. Facebook I can see depending significantly more on your specific social network.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

guscost 12y ago

I'd expect to see at least a scattered amount of online PSYOP from military organizations in Israel or the United States[0] or many other countries. It would be wise to keep the following in mind before deciding which ones should change how they're doing it: - Every one of these organizations is in some secret or not-so-secret budget under "psychological operations." In one form or another this has been considered a normal part of warfare since Sun Tzu. - Every one of these organizations would say that "criticizing our country online means attacking its reputation" and that "we are defending our country by posting counter-arguments." - Serious long-term damage happens to any PSYOP group that habitually spreads false information. The fact that the people at many of these organizations certainly know this does not mean that they would never spread false information, just that doing so would make them very bad at their jobs. [0] http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1070&context=jpps http://digitalcommons.kennesaw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...

cbd1984 12y ago

> People notice that they get attacked when they criticize Israel online, and eventually they keep quiet. Or maybe it's that the people who claim they're just attacking Israel are really attacking Jews in general, and most people don't respond well to having anti-Semitic turds dumped in their conversational punchbowl.

cryoshon 12y ago
This is one of the tropes the shills abuse en masse over and over again, FYI-- the conflation of criticizing Israel's policies and actions with the hatred of Jews. Israel and Jews are not the same entity, it's entirely possible (even probable) to disprove of Israel and approve of Jews. As an example, I am married to a Jew, but detest Israel's foreign policy and the way it tends to drag the USA around.
- hobs 12y ago
  But how much are you "married" to a jew, really?
  - cryoshon 12y ago
    100% in the eyes of the law ;)