6 ms·

What Killed Straight Pool? (2005)

48 points by percept 12y ago

johnobrien1010 12y ago
I wonder if I'm the only guy out there in his 30s who still plays straight pool?
- jackdempsey 12y ago
  Nah...there's probably at least one or two more :-) What I really miss shooting is one pocket.
  - dionidium 12y ago
    I still sometimes see one-pocket, but I frequently see last-pocket played, especially in gambling situations. It's a nice way to hog a barbox.
HockeyPlayer 12y ago
I'm 41, grew up playing with my Dad, who is now 74 and my Grandfather. He was a straight pool player from Missouri, usually called it 14-1. My best run is 17.
- bogardon 12y ago
  Yeah I played a lot in Taiwan during middle/high school and we called it 14-1 too.
- nilkn 12y ago
  > I'm 41, grew up playing with my Dad, who is now 74 and my Grandfather. That sentence sure threw me for a loop at first.
- nkurz 12y ago
  with my Dad, who is now 74 and my Grandfather Wow, that must have been a surprise. I wouldn't have thought that would be legal even in Missouri! But I suppose it could be worse... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw I'm My Own Grandpa - Ray Stevens (with family tree diagram)
  - leephillips 12y ago
    Commas save lives. http://www.cafepress.com/+commas-save-lives+gifts http://www.cafepress.com/+commas-save-lives+gifts
aetherson 12y ago
> Thorsten Hohmann, the 2003 world 9-ball champion, How can this article be from 1997? The URL suggests that it is either the "current issue" or that it is from August 05 (2005? The fifth August issue)? At any rate, it doesn't seem like it's from 1997.
- sctb 12y ago
  Thanks, we updated the title.
- dang 12y ago
  Sorry, my mistake. This is a good place to repeat that if anyone would enjoy figuring out a programmatic solution to this problem, we'd be interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8831616 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8831616
mrbrandonking 12y ago
Simple answer: Declining attention spans. For those who've never seen straight pool (AKA 14.1) played, here's a link to video of an all-time classic match: Joe Balsis running 150-and-out to beat Irving Crane in 1966. http://youtu.be/k06-M12lQWE http://youtu.be/k06-M12lQWE For a pool aficionado (like me), it's a delight to see such a masterful performance. But for most people, watching a guy shoot-in balls for an hour without missing is probably like watching paint dry. I love the game, though. I like snooker even better, which was also popular in the U.S. back in straight pool's heydey. Now it's hard to even find a snooker table in the states.
- ChicagoBoy11 12y ago
  Ever since I got into snooker I could never get excited about pool anymore. Snooker feels just so much more cerebral... Feels like Checkers vs. Chess to me. Although I think that for snooker you have to be quite good to really enjoy playing... but on TV, the drama is incomparable. Too bad it is such a non-sport in the US :-(
- tmuir 12y ago
  I knew a guy that had a snooker table that was close to 100 years old. It used to be in a bar, and had lots of cigarette burns on the wood, giving it lots of character. Overall, the table was in excellent condition. What's amazing about a snooker table is the difference in size from a table you usually see at a pool hall or bar. Normal pool tables are either 7 or 8 feet long, whereas a snooker table is nearly 12 feet long. Additionally, the rails curve into the pockets, instead of having sharp angles. This makes it nearly impossible to bank a shot in off of the pocket rails. Finally, the balls were smaller. I'm not sure if there is a regulation size or not, but these were significantly smaller than what you typically see in a pool hall. These three details add up to an extremely challenging game of pool. Although, once you play it long enough to get used to it, it makes a normal sized table feel like a child's game. Edit: We played 9 ball exclusively. I can't speak to the actual game of snooker itself.
  - mrbrandonking 12y ago
    Snooker balls are smaller than regular pool balls. There's also a difference between snooker equipment manufacturer in the U.S. and what's used in the United Kingdom and the rest of the world. American snooker uses 2 1/8" balls on a 5' x 10' table. British snooker (also the standard for the rest of the world) uses 2 1/16" balls on a 6' x 12' table. Snooker is a major sport in the United Kingdom where players earn millions in prize money and endoresements. Pool pros in the U.S. earn less than most of the people here on Hacker News. And, yes, hardly anybody cares to watch pool on TV.
clairity 12y ago
straight pool is great fun if both players have some minimal level of skill (mostly speed control and top/back spin). i think that's why it's not popular at a casual level since most casual players just want to smack balls around and drink beer (and there's nothing wrong with that =)
buckbova 12y ago
Why would straight pool require more skill than 9-ball? Hitting any ball in you want seems easier to me.
- dionidium 12y ago
  My guess is that the point is that real skill is exposed over a long game of both players shooting at any ball. There is a considerable amount of positioning luck involved in any single 9-ball game.
  - jzwinck 12y ago
    Right, but nobody plays a single 9-ball game. For one thing, you can win on the break! But over many games the relative skill of two players will be revealed, just as in straight pool. However, in 9-ball the maximum risk from failing to play a safety is much less--one rack instead of many.
    - mrbrandonking 12y ago
      It seems like straight pool provided a more accurate means of distinguishing skill levels between players. Dallas West (straight pool pro from 70's) once said that he knew he had arrived as a pro when, as a teenager, he finally ran 100-balls in a row. He then said that he had made a 100-ball run every day of his life since then. There's a similar jump in standing at 50-balls. A complete beginner might have to practice hard for a year to clear a single rack. 9-ball players like to boast about their long runs, too, but there's an element of luck (the break shot) that throws a kink into direct comparisons between players' high runs. Earl Strickland once ran 11-racks in a row to win a $1 million prize, but a player with a "six-pack" (6-racks in a row) isn't necessarily half as skilled.
- raphael_l 12y ago
  Amateur league pool player here: You have to consider there are mainly two things to think about when playing any kind of Billard sport: 1. Pocketing the ball 2. Position of your cue ball (the white ball) Mastering the one doesn't necessarily mean you have mastered the other. Pocketing a ball is fairly easy if you get in a good position - but first you have to get in that position and thats the tricky part. In Straight Pool to win the important part at first is to have the balls spread out across the table, so as to have many options and easier shots. And that's the difficult to do because of the way you break. Because you actually start the game with a defensive break (because you have to call your shots and you can't just smash the rack open as you do in 8-,9- or 10-ball), as to not give your opponent an easy shot. This video shows 2 great pool players at the break [0]. In 9-ball for example there's luck involved (also where the rack is placed and what rack is used, but thats too complicated for now), because at the start of the rack you simply smash the balls wide open. If you make a shot - great. If not - great for your opponent. So in Straight Pool the beginning is mainly safety play until someone actually manages to pocket a ball and open the balls up at the same time. Running a rack in straight pool isn't the issue - having a good ball to re-open the next rack to continue the run is the difficult part. That's the position issue. Because you have to be aware on how you want the develop the balls and what position your cue ball is going to be in. There are a lot more things to consider but I think that's a pretty basic start as to why Straight Pool is more advanced than 8-, 9- or 10-ball ;) [0] http://youtu.be/SqxvJaPABW0?t=9m42s http://youtu.be/SqxvJaPABW0?t=9m42s

48 points by percept 12y ago

johnobrien1010 12y ago

I wonder if I'm the only guy out there in his 30s who still plays straight pool?

jackdempsey 12y ago
Nah...there's probably at least one or two more :-) What I really miss shooting is one pocket.
- dionidium 12y ago
  I still sometimes see one-pocket, but I frequently see last-pocket played, especially in gambling situations. It's a nice way to hog a barbox.

HockeyPlayer 12y ago

I'm 41, grew up playing with my Dad, who is now 74 and my Grandfather. He was a straight pool player from Missouri, usually called it 14-1. My best run is 17.

bogardon 12y ago
Yeah I played a lot in Taiwan during middle/high school and we called it 14-1 too.
nilkn 12y ago
> I'm 41, grew up playing with my Dad, who is now 74 and my Grandfather. That sentence sure threw me for a loop at first.
nkurz 12y ago
with my Dad, who is now 74 and my Grandfather Wow, that must have been a surprise. I wouldn't have thought that would be legal even in Missouri! But I suppose it could be worse... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYlJH81dSiw I'm My Own Grandpa - Ray Stevens (with family tree diagram)
- leephillips 12y ago
  Commas save lives. http://www.cafepress.com/+commas-save-lives+gifts http://www.cafepress.com/+commas-save-lives+gifts

aetherson 12y ago

> Thorsten Hohmann, the 2003 world 9-ball champion, How can this article be from 1997? The URL suggests that it is either the "current issue" or that it is from August 05 (2005? The fifth August issue)? At any rate, it doesn't seem like it's from 1997.

sctb 12y ago
Thanks, we updated the title.
dang 12y ago
Sorry, my mistake. This is a good place to repeat that if anyone would enjoy figuring out a programmatic solution to this problem, we'd be interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8831616 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8831616

mrbrandonking 12y ago

Simple answer: Declining attention spans. For those who've never seen straight pool (AKA 14.1) played, here's a link to video of an all-time classic match: Joe Balsis running 150-and-out to beat Irving Crane in 1966. http://youtu.be/k06-M12lQWE http://youtu.be/k06-M12lQWE For a pool aficionado (like me), it's a delight to see such a masterful performance. But for most people, watching a guy shoot-in balls for an hour without missing is probably like watching paint dry. I love the game, though. I like snooker even better, which was also popular in the U.S. back in straight pool's heydey. Now it's hard to even find a snooker table in the states.

ChicagoBoy11 12y ago
Ever since I got into snooker I could never get excited about pool anymore. Snooker feels just so much more cerebral... Feels like Checkers vs. Chess to me. Although I think that for snooker you have to be quite good to really enjoy playing... but on TV, the drama is incomparable. Too bad it is such a non-sport in the US :-(
tmuir 12y ago
I knew a guy that had a snooker table that was close to 100 years old. It used to be in a bar, and had lots of cigarette burns on the wood, giving it lots of character. Overall, the table was in excellent condition. What's amazing about a snooker table is the difference in size from a table you usually see at a pool hall or bar. Normal pool tables are either 7 or 8 feet long, whereas a snooker table is nearly 12 feet long. Additionally, the rails curve into the pockets, instead of having sharp angles. This makes it nearly impossible to bank a shot in off of the pocket rails. Finally, the balls were smaller. I'm not sure if there is a regulation size or not, but these were significantly smaller than what you typically see in a pool hall. These three details add up to an extremely challenging game of pool. Although, once you play it long enough to get used to it, it makes a normal sized table feel like a child's game. Edit: We played 9 ball exclusively. I can't speak to the actual game of snooker itself.
- mrbrandonking 12y ago
  Snooker balls are smaller than regular pool balls. There's also a difference between snooker equipment manufacturer in the U.S. and what's used in the United Kingdom and the rest of the world. American snooker uses 2 1/8" balls on a 5' x 10' table. British snooker (also the standard for the rest of the world) uses 2 1/16" balls on a 6' x 12' table. Snooker is a major sport in the United Kingdom where players earn millions in prize money and endoresements. Pool pros in the U.S. earn less than most of the people here on Hacker News. And, yes, hardly anybody cares to watch pool on TV.

clairity 12y ago

straight pool is great fun if both players have some minimal level of skill (mostly speed control and top/back spin). i think that's why it's not popular at a casual level since most casual players just want to smack balls around and drink beer (and there's nothing wrong with that =)

buckbova 12y ago

Why would straight pool require more skill than 9-ball? Hitting any ball in you want seems easier to me.

dionidium 12y ago
My guess is that the point is that real skill is exposed over a long game of both players shooting at any ball. There is a considerable amount of positioning luck involved in any single 9-ball game.
- jzwinck 12y ago
  Right, but nobody plays a single 9-ball game. For one thing, you can win on the break! But over many games the relative skill of two players will be revealed, just as in straight pool. However, in 9-ball the maximum risk from failing to play a safety is much less--one rack instead of many.
  - mrbrandonking 12y ago
    It seems like straight pool provided a more accurate means of distinguishing skill levels between players. Dallas West (straight pool pro from 70's) once said that he knew he had arrived as a pro when, as a teenager, he finally ran 100-balls in a row. He then said that he had made a 100-ball run every day of his life since then. There's a similar jump in standing at 50-balls. A complete beginner might have to practice hard for a year to clear a single rack. 9-ball players like to boast about their long runs, too, but there's an element of luck (the break shot) that throws a kink into direct comparisons between players' high runs. Earl Strickland once ran 11-racks in a row to win a $1 million prize, but a player with a "six-pack" (6-racks in a row) isn't necessarily half as skilled.
raphael_l 12y ago
Amateur league pool player here: You have to consider there are mainly two things to think about when playing any kind of Billard sport: 1. Pocketing the ball 2. Position of your cue ball (the white ball) Mastering the one doesn't necessarily mean you have mastered the other. Pocketing a ball is fairly easy if you get in a good position - but first you have to get in that position and thats the tricky part. In Straight Pool to win the important part at first is to have the balls spread out across the table, so as to have many options and easier shots. And that's the difficult to do because of the way you break. Because you actually start the game with a defensive break (because you have to call your shots and you can't just smash the rack open as you do in 8-,9- or 10-ball), as to not give your opponent an easy shot. This video shows 2 great pool players at the break [0]. In 9-ball for example there's luck involved (also where the rack is placed and what rack is used, but thats too complicated for now), because at the start of the rack you simply smash the balls wide open. If you make a shot - great. If not - great for your opponent. So in Straight Pool the beginning is mainly safety play until someone actually manages to pocket a ball and open the balls up at the same time. Running a rack in straight pool isn't the issue - having a good ball to re-open the next rack to continue the run is the difficult part. That's the position issue. Because you have to be aware on how you want the develop the balls and what position your cue ball is going to be in. There are a lot more things to consider but I think that's a pretty basic start as to why Straight Pool is more advanced than 8-, 9- or 10-ball ;) [0] http://youtu.be/SqxvJaPABW0?t=9m42s http://youtu.be/SqxvJaPABW0?t=9m42s