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America has long held itself up as "better" than other countries - more virtuous, more wise, more free, more advanced, etc. etc. When you actually look into it

America has long held itself up as "better" than other countries - more virtuous, more wise, more free, more advanced, etc. etc. When you actually look into it you see: a) the utterly brutal dispossession and extermination of a weak and technologically primitive existing population b) the callous and self-serving enslavation of vast numbers of people c) vicious and destructive interference in weak countries across the 20th and 21st century to facilitate the wholesale theft of natural resources. I'm not saying that the rest of the world doesn't have its own sins, or that any other country would have been particularly better if they had the opportunities that America has had, but please, get down off your high horse. The ignorance and self-infatuation of American people is why they are so widely hated.

b6 12y ago
I don't think I'm on a high horse. I'm actually extremely critical of the US. Rereading my comment, is it possible you attributed viewpoints to me that I didn't actually express?
happyscrappy 12y ago
They are widely hated by Europeans who do not even realize they are a vassal state. Most of the rest of the world would do anything to get to America.
- userulluipeste 12y ago
  "Most of the rest of the world would do anything to get to America." I find this to be just a self-enforcing attitude (which one may get a chance to feel when entering a USA consulate). Some decades ago, when there was a big difference in the quality of life between USA and "the rest of the world" (thanks to WW2 outcome), it made sense to claim such a thing. But things change, you know?
- coldtea 12y ago
  Spoken like a true American (with all that implies). Most of the world would want America to fucking live them alone.
javert 12y ago
Everything you are saying here is oversimplified to the point of being grossly inaccurate (for example, 600,000 Americans died in a war to END slavery---why do you ignore that?). Basically, this is an apologia for hating Americans. It is selectively historicizing something to justify your final sentence, which is an apologia for hating Americans. If you hate Americans, maybe you shouldn't post on a website full of Americans. And don't say you don't hate Americans. There is no reason to present a bunch of completely slanted history and just be like, "oh yeah, this is why other people hate Americans, but they are ignorant because they are selectively historicizing it." That is clearly not your attitude or your point. By the way, - Natural resources do not belong to whoever happens to live near them but simply ignores them. They belong to the person who extracts them. Property rights are acquired by use, not by where you were born or by your nationality. - There were many cases of peaceful co-habitation with Native Americans and many cases of Native Americans initiating force against the settlers. Probably these categories account for a lot more than the category of outright brutality against natives, though that did happen some, particularly under Andrew Jackson (which is relatively late in our history!). - It is worth recognizing that Americas founders were adamant about maintaining neutrality, so foreign interference is in many ways un-American. Moreover, it is worth recognizing that America has a moral right to interfere in foreign countries that threaten force against its citizens or their property, as does any country.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- jasonisalive 12y ago
  Natural resources... belong to the person who extracts them. Wow, you must be a legal scholar. So let's say one day you come home to find that I've demolished your house and started drilling for oil. You're cool with that, I'm sure. There were many cases of peaceful co-habitation with Native Americans and many cases of Native Americans initiating force against the settlers. Good job at whitewashing. Let's say one day you come home and I'm camped on your front lawn. You tell me to get off so I beat you and take your living room as punishment for your "bad behaviour." A few weeks later you get angry and try and force me out again. This time I kill your wife and kids and give you the basement as a "reservation." Shouldn't have initiated force against me, right? America has a moral right to interfere in foreign countries that threaten force against its citizens This is just so laughable. If you think that the history of American 20th and 21st century foreign policy is about self-protection then... well, I guess you could say all those democratically elected leaders of third world countries were sort of threatening American citizens right? Threatening them with fair prices for natural resources maybe? Maybe if you consider all resources everywhere property of America, then anyone who refuses to sell you them for next to nothing and suppress their own citizenry for kickbacks is an aggressor... I've been to America and the majority of the people I met - and this is in the nicer cities - were like big, stupid puppies, who thought America was the greatest country, and were completely confused when you said, well, no, actually... As I've said elsewhere there's no excuse for doing the wrong thing. Americans love to play the moral high card but they brutally annexed their country from a weak and vulnerable pre-existing population with much deeper historical and spiritual ties to the land. Then they've proceeded to do some of the nastiest things of the last few hundred years. Heaven forbid they be forced to admit any of that. The onus is on them though. The moral corruption of never acknowledging one's foundational guilt is inexorable.

b6 12y ago

I don't think I'm on a high horse. I'm actually extremely critical of the US. Rereading my comment, is it possible you attributed viewpoints to me that I didn't actually express?

happyscrappy 12y ago

They are widely hated by Europeans who do not even realize they are a vassal state. Most of the rest of the world would do anything to get to America.

userulluipeste 12y ago
"Most of the rest of the world would do anything to get to America." I find this to be just a self-enforcing attitude (which one may get a chance to feel when entering a USA consulate). Some decades ago, when there was a big difference in the quality of life between USA and "the rest of the world" (thanks to WW2 outcome), it made sense to claim such a thing. But things change, you know?
coldtea 12y ago
Spoken like a true American (with all that implies). Most of the world would want America to fucking live them alone.

javert 12y ago

Everything you are saying here is oversimplified to the point of being grossly inaccurate (for example, 600,000 Americans died in a war to END slavery---why do you ignore that?). Basically, this is an apologia for hating Americans. It is selectively historicizing something to justify your final sentence, which is an apologia for hating Americans. If you hate Americans, maybe you shouldn't post on a website full of Americans. And don't say you don't hate Americans. There is no reason to present a bunch of completely slanted history and just be like, "oh yeah, this is why other people hate Americans, but they are ignorant because they are selectively historicizing it." That is clearly not your attitude or your point. By the way, - Natural resources do not belong to whoever happens to live near them but simply ignores them. They belong to the person who extracts them. Property rights are acquired by use, not by where you were born or by your nationality. - There were many cases of peaceful co-habitation with Native Americans and many cases of Native Americans initiating force against the settlers. Probably these categories account for a lot more than the category of outright brutality against natives, though that did happen some, particularly under Andrew Jackson (which is relatively late in our history!). - It is worth recognizing that Americas founders were adamant about maintaining neutrality, so foreign interference is in many ways un-American. Moreover, it is worth recognizing that America has a moral right to interfere in foreign countries that threaten force against its citizens or their property, as does any country.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
jasonisalive 12y ago
Natural resources... belong to the person who extracts them. Wow, you must be a legal scholar. So let's say one day you come home to find that I've demolished your house and started drilling for oil. You're cool with that, I'm sure. There were many cases of peaceful co-habitation with Native Americans and many cases of Native Americans initiating force against the settlers. Good job at whitewashing. Let's say one day you come home and I'm camped on your front lawn. You tell me to get off so I beat you and take your living room as punishment for your "bad behaviour." A few weeks later you get angry and try and force me out again. This time I kill your wife and kids and give you the basement as a "reservation." Shouldn't have initiated force against me, right? America has a moral right to interfere in foreign countries that threaten force against its citizens This is just so laughable. If you think that the history of American 20th and 21st century foreign policy is about self-protection then... well, I guess you could say all those democratically elected leaders of third world countries were sort of threatening American citizens right? Threatening them with fair prices for natural resources maybe? Maybe if you consider all resources everywhere property of America, then anyone who refuses to sell you them for next to nothing and suppress their own citizenry for kickbacks is an aggressor... I've been to America and the majority of the people I met - and this is in the nicer cities - were like big, stupid puppies, who thought America was the greatest country, and were completely confused when you said, well, no, actually... As I've said elsewhere there's no excuse for doing the wrong thing. Americans love to play the moral high card but they brutally annexed their country from a weak and vulnerable pre-existing population with much deeper historical and spiritual ties to the land. Then they've proceeded to do some of the nastiest things of the last few hundred years. Heaven forbid they be forced to admit any of that. The onus is on them though. The moral corruption of never acknowledging one's foundational guilt is inexorable.