7 ms·

Peter Thiel becomes marijuana's first big investor

129 points by forloop 12y ago

astletron 12y ago
Is there an avenue for a Joe Schmo investor like me to get some exposure to the marijuana market? I'd definitely put some dollars behind the future of that commodity.
- hello_newman 12y ago
  I'm working on a product for it currently in California. Email me if you're interested in talking.
- arfliw 12y ago
  There are public companies in the industry. All are highly risky/volatile stocks, though. Nothing like a blue chip company yet, which you could trust to steadily rise in tandem with the industry.
  - rmetzler 12y ago
    I think there are only few labs specialized in testing THC and CBD levels yet. While it isn't very hard to grow or create other products, I don't think it's easy to compete with a service like this.
    - eli 12y ago
      Wouldn't a huge industrial testing company eventually decide the market is big and safe enough to enter and just crush the small players on scale?
- IndianAstronaut 12y ago
  There are definitely investment channels. Beware though, the feds could come down at any moment. Some percentage of the money you invest in the stocks should also go to political lobbying to prevent heavy regulation.
e40 12y ago
which is still illegal in half the US I was unaware that it's legal in half the US. That has to be hyperbole, right?
- ddingus 12y ago
  If you are discussing medical use, half is about right. Recreation is only legal right now in CO and WA, with OR to follow mid year, when it's law goes into effect. June, I believe.
  - mingmecca 12y ago
    July 15th to be exact.
  - santaclaus 12y ago
    Isn't Alaska on the list of soon-to-be legal recreational states?
    - bigtunacan 12y ago
      Pretty sure it's already legal in Alaska. http://ballotpedia.org/Alaska_Marijuana_Legalization,_Ballot_Measure_2_%282014%29 http://ballotpedia.org/Alaska_Marijuana_Legalization,_Ballot...
      - jpatokal 12y ago
        Possession and personal use, yes, but the channels for commercial production and sale have not been worked out yet.
      - bholzer 12y ago
        First state to legalize, in fact
  - eli 12y ago
    And probably DC, depending on what Congress and the courts do next.
chollida1 12y ago
> So it’s hardly surprising that Thiel’s Founders Fund has become the first institutional investor to make an investment in the nascent cannabis industry – a business that isn't even legal in half of the states in the country. That is some awful fact checking. Last year there were 4 funds that I know of that invested in marijuana companies. I'm sure the actual number is an order of magnitude larger. I guess this head line gets readers though:) There are already marijuana companies that list, MJNA US Equity, TWD CN Equity and SUN CN Equity are three that come to mind. All of which have institutional investors.
- RyJones 12y ago
  I think this is a lightly edited press release.
  - jsprogrammer 12y ago
    Should't press releases, if anything, be factual?
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - foobarqux 12y ago
      Press releases are public-relations/marketing/propaganda, the opposite of factual.
      - jsprogrammer 12y ago
        I think you are describing the difference between 'should' and 'are'.
    - Argorak 12y ago
      No. Press releases always had to goal to pre-write things for journalists and - in the best case - not do too much fact-checking. They are a PR invention and never had the goal to be too rooted in reality.
pmalynin 12y ago
Wasn't he the one who said Twitter execs smoke too much weed?
- rdrey 12y ago
  Yes. His opinion is probably "managers make worse decisions while high" => "Weed is bad for business." Which is not the same as "The weed business is bad."
  - nerfhammer 12y ago
    He may have been engaging in controversy to sell his book at the time http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/17/tweet-tweet-pass/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/17/tweet-tweet-pass/
  - tempodox 12y ago
    As a die-hard fan of recreational marijuana use I can tell you from personal experience that you really should be sober at work. Not only does drug use at work destroy your productivity, it also blurs the distinction between work and pleasure. While this might seem to “enhance” your working experience at first, it also devaluates your spare time and precipitates burn-out syndrome. That knowledge might be trivial for most people, but this seems a good place to spell it out.
- beachstartup 12y ago
  'too much' implies that there is an acceptable and responsible level. kind of like 'drink too much beer'.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  You can approve of and partake in an activity while also realizing that excessive use is detrimental. Like drinking.
- cmyr 12y ago
  Until recently(?) if you were using the twitter API and were over your rate limit the server responded with "error 420: Enhance Your Calm".
lotsofmangos 12y ago
"If there is one figure closely identified with cannabis, it’s probably the late reggae legend Bob Marley – and late last year, Privateer signed a 30-year agreement to use his name on what is likely to be the world’s first global marijuana brand, Marley Natural." Bob evidently keeps his promises even beyond the grave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zErP5QoMA3w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zErP5QoMA3w
- oscargrouch 12y ago
  next: A Che Guevara brand for guns targeting the guerrila "market". Capitalistic and for-profit guided society is rot to the core
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    I would not be at all surprised if a gunsmith somewhere in the USA was currently making replica Cristóbal Carbines for that very market.
guiomie 12y ago
It never occured to me that cannabis would be a next booming industry. I've noticed there are a few traded companies already: CVE:BED, CVE:TWD ... Anyone know other investment (tradable) vehicules out there ?
- nilkn 12y ago
  I'm sure several billionaires and countless millionaires will come out of the upcoming cannabis boom over the next decade (or two, or three). The real question of interest on HN is how much software will play a role in this.
  - sethd 12y ago
    That's a good question. What would be the analogue industries/commodities to compare to? Tea, Coffee, Tobacco? What role does software play in those other than ecommerce and agriculture on a large scale? Of course cannibis is mostly grown in small scale operations right now but that could change with legal industrial hemp.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
sago 12y ago
> They have a strong first-mover advantage,” – that’s Silicon Valley speak for planting your flag first Glad that we have articles like this to explain that obscure Silicon Valley jargon to us.
zmanian 12y ago
I suspect that the national market for legal cannabis is likely maybe ~$25 billion. Cannabis is inexpensive to produce. Easy to stores and ship. The price will be driven more by taxation than production costs. It just seems like too small a market for venture capital.
- TillE 12y ago
  There's definitely room for premium cannabis. Even in the black market, there's been a ton of interest in the breeding and marketing of new varieties (aka "strains"). People pay attention to stuff like the Cannabis Cup. If I had the resources and some legal assurances, I'd be acquiring all the best genetics, growing them organically, and marketing the hell out of it. Creating a quality brand that people would trust. With VC funding, you could probably acquire some of the best breeders in the US and maybe even the Netherlands. That would give you serious cachet among connoisseurs.
  - Phlarp 12y ago
    This is spot on. I could easily see an industry similar to craft beer emerging.
  - zmanian 12y ago
    Harborside has been running the most sophisticated operation in the world and they have pretty much been giving away their knowledge base.
- greggarious 12y ago
  Couldn't the same argument be made for booze? I forsee a future where marijuana is heaving taxed, and the resources previously given to the DEA to combat weed are given to the BATFM (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Marijuana) to go after untaxed marijuana.
- coffeemug 12y ago
  Many technology companies naturally tend toward monopolies (which is one of Peter Thiel's investment theses). If the same is true for cannabis, and you can get a monopoly in a ~$25B market, you've got yourself one of the most valuable companies in the world.
JabavuAdams 12y ago
I have this mental image of a baked Peter Thiel and Elon Musk stumbling out of a crashed space-ship, on Mars. "Duuuuuude. Whoa!" "Seriously!" It makes me happy.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  That's a "Ted and Bill's excellent adventure" reference right?
  - JabavuAdams 12y ago
    Not specifically, but it could be.
louprado 12y ago
Am I am the only one who is saddened by this headline ? This seriously messed with my day.
- D_Alex 12y ago
  You are not alone... I fear that, unfortunately, a liberal approach to drugs will not end well at all. And I have thought a lot about this and heard all the arguments in favour. And yes, I know about how alcohol is legal and much worse than mj. But suppose there was a drug even "better" than mj, legal, cheap, very available and had no side effects whatsoever. Suppose it was not addictive, just THE most pleasant thing you could do in your spare time. How would the society be affected by replacement of a complex system of drives and desires with one simple desire, to get high on this new drug whenever possible? I fear we'd be facign the ultimate Tragedy of the Commons.
  - angersock 12y ago
    Thank God that isn't what's currently happening, then.
  - JabavuAdams 12y ago
    This is not a good argument. Novelty-seeking is a great pleasure for much of the population. Something can't be both non-addictive and also the most pleasant thing to do all the time. We would have to breed out or genetically engineer out the possibility of boredom, which we're not going to do. Or if we do, then that's the source of the problem, not the drugs.
  - fl0wenol 12y ago
    Yeah, it's called masturbation, and it's here now. It is a bit of a time waster, but I'm not sorry!
  - ossreality 12y ago
    Oh jfc. "I know about the counter arguments, let me just ignore them and wave them all away and invent a completely straw man argument".
  - 12y ago
vivc15 12y ago
Disclaimer: I work at MandJclub.com Branding is probably the key factor in whether this industry is able to generate wide-spread user adoption. It is interesting that Privateer decided to choose the Marley brand to associate with. However, that still targets a specific demographic that is currently exposed to cannabis, but it won't help draw new users into the segment as recreational marijuana becomes legalized nationwide.
andreyf 12y ago
> "Every time the tide recedes, we are able to take a step forward" in building Privateer’s existing businesses and in seeking out new investments, Kennedy said. I'm not certain the "tide" metaphor is the best choice here...
- kazinator 12y ago
  Yes; you need something that permanently recedes. Hairline? :)

129 points by forloop 12y ago

Is there an avenue for a Joe Schmo investor like me to get some exposure to the marijuana market? I'd definitely put some dollars behind the future of that commodity.

hello_newman 12y ago
I'm working on a product for it currently in California. Email me if you're interested in talking.
arfliw 12y ago
There are public companies in the industry. All are highly risky/volatile stocks, though. Nothing like a blue chip company yet, which you could trust to steadily rise in tandem with the industry.
- rmetzler 12y ago
  I think there are only few labs specialized in testing THC and CBD levels yet. While it isn't very hard to grow or create other products, I don't think it's easy to compete with a service like this.
  - eli 12y ago
    Wouldn't a huge industrial testing company eventually decide the market is big and safe enough to enter and just crush the small players on scale?
IndianAstronaut 12y ago
There are definitely investment channels. Beware though, the feds could come down at any moment. Some percentage of the money you invest in the stocks should also go to political lobbying to prevent heavy regulation.

e40 12y ago

which is still illegal in half the US I was unaware that it's legal in half the US. That has to be hyperbole, right?

ddingus 12y ago
If you are discussing medical use, half is about right. Recreation is only legal right now in CO and WA, with OR to follow mid year, when it's law goes into effect. June, I believe.
- mingmecca 12y ago
  July 15th to be exact.
- santaclaus 12y ago
  Isn't Alaska on the list of soon-to-be legal recreational states?
  - bigtunacan 12y ago
    Pretty sure it's already legal in Alaska. http://ballotpedia.org/Alaska_Marijuana_Legalization,_Ballot_Measure_2_%282014%29 http://ballotpedia.org/Alaska_Marijuana_Legalization,_Ballot...
    - jpatokal 12y ago
      Possession and personal use, yes, but the channels for commercial production and sale have not been worked out yet.
    - bholzer 12y ago
      First state to legalize, in fact
- eli 12y ago
  And probably DC, depending on what Congress and the courts do next.

chollida1 12y ago

> So it’s hardly surprising that Thiel’s Founders Fund has become the first institutional investor to make an investment in the nascent cannabis industry – a business that isn't even legal in half of the states in the country. That is some awful fact checking. Last year there were 4 funds that I know of that invested in marijuana companies. I'm sure the actual number is an order of magnitude larger. I guess this head line gets readers though:) There are already marijuana companies that list, MJNA US Equity, TWD CN Equity and SUN CN Equity are three that come to mind. All of which have institutional investors.

RyJones 12y ago
I think this is a lightly edited press release.
- jsprogrammer 12y ago
  Should't press releases, if anything, be factual?
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - foobarqux 12y ago
    Press releases are public-relations/marketing/propaganda, the opposite of factual.
    - jsprogrammer 12y ago
      I think you are describing the difference between 'should' and 'are'.
  - Argorak 12y ago
    No. Press releases always had to goal to pre-write things for journalists and - in the best case - not do too much fact-checking. They are a PR invention and never had the goal to be too rooted in reality.

pmalynin 12y ago

Wasn't he the one who said Twitter execs smoke too much weed?

rdrey 12y ago
Yes. His opinion is probably "managers make worse decisions while high" => "Weed is bad for business." Which is not the same as "The weed business is bad."
- nerfhammer 12y ago
  He may have been engaging in controversy to sell his book at the time http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/17/tweet-tweet-pass/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/17/tweet-tweet-pass/
- tempodox 12y ago
  As a die-hard fan of recreational marijuana use I can tell you from personal experience that you really should be sober at work. Not only does drug use at work destroy your productivity, it also blurs the distinction between work and pleasure. While this might seem to “enhance” your working experience at first, it also devaluates your spare time and precipitates burn-out syndrome. That knowledge might be trivial for most people, but this seems a good place to spell it out.
beachstartup 12y ago
'too much' implies that there is an acceptable and responsible level. kind of like 'drink too much beer'.
Igglyboo 12y ago
You can approve of and partake in an activity while also realizing that excessive use is detrimental. Like drinking.
cmyr 12y ago
Until recently(?) if you were using the twitter API and were over your rate limit the server responded with "error 420: Enhance Your Calm".

lotsofmangos 12y ago

"If there is one figure closely identified with cannabis, it’s probably the late reggae legend Bob Marley – and late last year, Privateer signed a 30-year agreement to use his name on what is likely to be the world’s first global marijuana brand, Marley Natural." Bob evidently keeps his promises even beyond the grave. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zErP5QoMA3w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zErP5QoMA3w

oscargrouch 12y ago
next: A Che Guevara brand for guns targeting the guerrila "market". Capitalistic and for-profit guided society is rot to the core
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  I would not be at all surprised if a gunsmith somewhere in the USA was currently making replica Cristóbal Carbines for that very market.

guiomie 12y ago

It never occured to me that cannabis would be a next booming industry. I've noticed there are a few traded companies already: CVE:BED, CVE:TWD ... Anyone know other investment (tradable) vehicules out there ?

nilkn 12y ago
I'm sure several billionaires and countless millionaires will come out of the upcoming cannabis boom over the next decade (or two, or three). The real question of interest on HN is how much software will play a role in this.
- sethd 12y ago
  That's a good question. What would be the analogue industries/commodities to compare to? Tea, Coffee, Tobacco? What role does software play in those other than ecommerce and agriculture on a large scale? Of course cannibis is mostly grown in small scale operations right now but that could change with legal industrial hemp.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

sago 12y ago

> They have a strong first-mover advantage,” – that’s Silicon Valley speak for planting your flag first Glad that we have articles like this to explain that obscure Silicon Valley jargon to us.

zmanian 12y ago

I suspect that the national market for legal cannabis is likely maybe ~$25 billion. Cannabis is inexpensive to produce. Easy to stores and ship. The price will be driven more by taxation than production costs. It just seems like too small a market for venture capital.

TillE 12y ago
There's definitely room for premium cannabis. Even in the black market, there's been a ton of interest in the breeding and marketing of new varieties (aka "strains"). People pay attention to stuff like the Cannabis Cup. If I had the resources and some legal assurances, I'd be acquiring all the best genetics, growing them organically, and marketing the hell out of it. Creating a quality brand that people would trust. With VC funding, you could probably acquire some of the best breeders in the US and maybe even the Netherlands. That would give you serious cachet among connoisseurs.
- Phlarp 12y ago
  This is spot on. I could easily see an industry similar to craft beer emerging.
- zmanian 12y ago
  Harborside has been running the most sophisticated operation in the world and they have pretty much been giving away their knowledge base.
greggarious 12y ago
Couldn't the same argument be made for booze? I forsee a future where marijuana is heaving taxed, and the resources previously given to the DEA to combat weed are given to the BATFM (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Marijuana) to go after untaxed marijuana.
coffeemug 12y ago
Many technology companies naturally tend toward monopolies (which is one of Peter Thiel's investment theses). If the same is true for cannabis, and you can get a monopoly in a ~$25B market, you've got yourself one of the most valuable companies in the world.

JabavuAdams 12y ago

I have this mental image of a baked Peter Thiel and Elon Musk stumbling out of a crashed space-ship, on Mars. "Duuuuuude. Whoa!" "Seriously!" It makes me happy.

jacquesm 12y ago
That's a "Ted and Bill's excellent adventure" reference right?
- JabavuAdams 12y ago
  Not specifically, but it could be.

louprado 12y ago

Am I am the only one who is saddened by this headline ? This seriously messed with my day.

D_Alex 12y ago
You are not alone... I fear that, unfortunately, a liberal approach to drugs will not end well at all. And I have thought a lot about this and heard all the arguments in favour. And yes, I know about how alcohol is legal and much worse than mj. But suppose there was a drug even "better" than mj, legal, cheap, very available and had no side effects whatsoever. Suppose it was not addictive, just THE most pleasant thing you could do in your spare time. How would the society be affected by replacement of a complex system of drives and desires with one simple desire, to get high on this new drug whenever possible? I fear we'd be facign the ultimate Tragedy of the Commons.
- angersock 12y ago
  Thank God that isn't what's currently happening, then.
- JabavuAdams 12y ago
  This is not a good argument. Novelty-seeking is a great pleasure for much of the population. Something can't be both non-addictive and also the most pleasant thing to do all the time. We would have to breed out or genetically engineer out the possibility of boredom, which we're not going to do. Or if we do, then that's the source of the problem, not the drugs.
- fl0wenol 12y ago
  Yeah, it's called masturbation, and it's here now. It is a bit of a time waster, but I'm not sorry!
- ossreality 12y ago
  Oh jfc. "I know about the counter arguments, let me just ignore them and wave them all away and invent a completely straw man argument".
- 12y ago

vivc15 12y ago

Disclaimer: I work at MandJclub.com Branding is probably the key factor in whether this industry is able to generate wide-spread user adoption. It is interesting that Privateer decided to choose the Marley brand to associate with. However, that still targets a specific demographic that is currently exposed to cannabis, but it won't help draw new users into the segment as recreational marijuana becomes legalized nationwide.

andreyf 12y ago

> "Every time the tide recedes, we are able to take a step forward" in building Privateer’s existing businesses and in seeking out new investments, Kennedy said. I'm not certain the "tide" metaphor is the best choice here...

kazinator 12y ago
Yes; you need something that permanently recedes. Hairline? :)