3 ms·

Apparently they have a very plausible reason to think it will be robust: It attacks cell walls, which are structural, rather than receptors (I think I'm using

Apparently they have a very plausible reason to think it will be robust: It attacks cell walls, which are structural, rather than receptors (I think I'm using the term correctly) that are proteins and prone to mutations. It's basically the same reason we don't fear bacteria to develop resistance to boiling or alcohol disinfectant.

gus_massa 12y ago
I tempted to write "What could go wrong?" or "Life finds a way.". A fast Google search gives this paper: " Relatively Alcohol-Resistant Mycobacteria Are Emerging Pathogens in Patients Receiving Acupuncture Treatment" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC140401/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC140401/ There are some archeas (and a few bacterias) that support boiling temperature, but IIRC they don't like meatware because it's too cold for them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile
- jobu 12y ago
  > I tempted to write "What could go wrong?" or "Life finds a way.". My thoughts exactly. Try using it in large scale animal farms for a couple decades and I'm betting something will become resistant.
  - platz 12y ago
    I thought some bacteria had developed double walls with an insulating fluid, so that they could expunge bad chemicals.
- erroneousfunk 12y ago
  I did a project on mycobacteria in college, and its not surprising that some of these are resistant to alcohol. These are bacteria that produce a hard protein shell that protect colonies of bacteria, and they can be difficult to attack or scrub off. Mycobacterium Abscessus, in particular is great at surviving in low-carbon environments (with very little food), and its protective shell and clustering formation protects it from low levels of chlorine. I cultured shower heads, sink faucets, and soda fountains in order to find them. Nasty stuff.
danielweber 12y ago
I wonder if you could get a system set up where, once we start using this, we put all the old antibiotics on a shelf. If bacteria never are exposed to them, they'll eventually lose their resistance, and so when we pull them out again they'll be almost as good as new. EDIT further down people are making the same point (I think)
- corndoge 12y ago
  Bacteria, and life in general, typically doesn't un-mutate and lose defensive abilities that allowed the previous generation to survive.
  - scott_s 12y ago
    Actually, they do. If selection pressure for a particular phenotype no longer exists, then you may lose those genes through genetic drift. edit: philwelch argues in a comment in this thread that this exact thing happens: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853769
  - hga 12y ago
    Actually, bacteria are, shall we say, particularly mutable (only one strand of genomic DNA, plus plasimids if they're useful), and they can do so rapidly. It's an issue of selection pressures. If they live in a competitive environment, which includes competing against each other, then the most "fit" ones win by out reproducing the competition. Mutations that made them more fit in an environment rife with antibiotic X may be mostly harmless in the absence of X, or might consume resources that can ill be afforded. See e.g. this subthread for more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853232
    - gtirloni 12y ago
      Thanks for all your thoughtful / very informative answers. Really appreciated it.
  - tuxracer 12y ago

gus_massa 12y ago

I tempted to write "What could go wrong?" or "Life finds a way.". A fast Google search gives this paper: " Relatively Alcohol-Resistant Mycobacteria Are Emerging Pathogens in Patients Receiving Acupuncture Treatment" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC140401/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC140401/ There are some archeas (and a few bacterias) that support boiling temperature, but IIRC they don't like meatware because it's too cold for them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermophile

jobu 12y ago
> I tempted to write "What could go wrong?" or "Life finds a way.". My thoughts exactly. Try using it in large scale animal farms for a couple decades and I'm betting something will become resistant.
- platz 12y ago
  I thought some bacteria had developed double walls with an insulating fluid, so that they could expunge bad chemicals.
erroneousfunk 12y ago
I did a project on mycobacteria in college, and its not surprising that some of these are resistant to alcohol. These are bacteria that produce a hard protein shell that protect colonies of bacteria, and they can be difficult to attack or scrub off. Mycobacterium Abscessus, in particular is great at surviving in low-carbon environments (with very little food), and its protective shell and clustering formation protects it from low levels of chlorine. I cultured shower heads, sink faucets, and soda fountains in order to find them. Nasty stuff.

danielweber 12y ago

I wonder if you could get a system set up where, once we start using this, we put all the old antibiotics on a shelf. If bacteria never are exposed to them, they'll eventually lose their resistance, and so when we pull them out again they'll be almost as good as new. EDIT further down people are making the same point (I think)

corndoge 12y ago
Bacteria, and life in general, typically doesn't un-mutate and lose defensive abilities that allowed the previous generation to survive.
- scott_s 12y ago
  Actually, they do. If selection pressure for a particular phenotype no longer exists, then you may lose those genes through genetic drift. edit: philwelch argues in a comment in this thread that this exact thing happens: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853769
- hga 12y ago
  Actually, bacteria are, shall we say, particularly mutable (only one strand of genomic DNA, plus plasimids if they're useful), and they can do so rapidly. It's an issue of selection pressures. If they live in a competitive environment, which includes competing against each other, then the most "fit" ones win by out reproducing the competition. Mutations that made them more fit in an environment rife with antibiotic X may be mostly harmless in the absence of X, or might consume resources that can ill be afforded. See e.g. this subthread for more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8853232
  - gtirloni 12y ago
    Thanks for all your thoughtful / very informative answers. Really appreciated it.
- tuxracer 12y ago