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Pervasive authenticated encryption will not prevent the NSA from doing their job, as long as lawmakers think they should do their job. Instead you will see key

by phkamp 12y ago

Pervasive authenticated encryption will not prevent the NSA from doing their job, as long as lawmakers think they should do their job. Instead you will see key-escrow laws or even bans on encryption. You cannot solve the political problem by applying encryption.

bad_user 12y ago
Laws against encryption will never be international. In the US it happened before [1], so there is indeed precedent. But such laws prevent a country from being competitive in the international marketplace, therefore many countries will not agree to it, just as they aren't agreeing with IP laws. And yes, I also believe that this trend on having national firewalls for censoring content will also not last for long, for the same reason. What I love about technology is that it cannot be stopped with lawmaking. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the...
- phkamp 12y ago
  The historical evidence that technology cannot be stopped by lawmakers is very weak, if it even exists in the first place. Very few lawmakers have really tried, and few technologies have been worth it in the first place. The relevant question is probably if technology can be delayed by lawmaking and how long time. There is no doubt however that policies can be changed, most places it just takes elections but a few places may need a revolution. Thinking this is a problem you can solve by rolling out SSL or TLS is incredibly naive.
cesarb 12y ago
> Instead you will see key-escrow laws or even bans on encryption. That's a defeatist attitude: "we can't win, so let's not even try". It's not guaranteed that pervasive authenticated encryption will lead to key-escrow laws or bans on encryption. In fact, the more common authenticated encryption is, the harder is to pass laws against it. As an example, consider how common encrypted wireless networks are nowadays. A blanket ban on encryption would be opposed by many of the wireless network owners. And that's only one use of encryption. Key escrow has the extra problem of being both costly and very complex to implement correctly.
- phkamp 12y ago
  No, I'm not saying "lets not even try", I'm saying "Lets try with the right tools for the job: Voting ballots." In the meantime we should not cripple our protocols, hoping that the NSA will go "aahh shucks!" and close shop, when the law clearly tells them to "Collect everything."

by phkamp 12y ago

bad_user 12y ago

Laws against encryption will never be international. In the US it happened before [1], so there is indeed precedent. But such laws prevent a country from being competitive in the international marketplace, therefore many countries will not agree to it, just as they aren't agreeing with IP laws. And yes, I also believe that this trend on having national firewalls for censoring content will also not last for long, for the same reason. What I love about technology is that it cannot be stopped with lawmaking. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the...

phkamp 12y ago
The historical evidence that technology cannot be stopped by lawmakers is very weak, if it even exists in the first place. Very few lawmakers have really tried, and few technologies have been worth it in the first place. The relevant question is probably if technology can be delayed by lawmaking and how long time. There is no doubt however that policies can be changed, most places it just takes elections but a few places may need a revolution. Thinking this is a problem you can solve by rolling out SSL or TLS is incredibly naive.

cesarb 12y ago

> Instead you will see key-escrow laws or even bans on encryption. That's a defeatist attitude: "we can't win, so let's not even try". It's not guaranteed that pervasive authenticated encryption will lead to key-escrow laws or bans on encryption. In fact, the more common authenticated encryption is, the harder is to pass laws against it. As an example, consider how common encrypted wireless networks are nowadays. A blanket ban on encryption would be opposed by many of the wireless network owners. And that's only one use of encryption. Key escrow has the extra problem of being both costly and very complex to implement correctly.

phkamp 12y ago
No, I'm not saying "lets not even try", I'm saying "Lets try with the right tools for the job: Voting ballots." In the meantime we should not cripple our protocols, hoping that the NSA will go "aahh shucks!" and close shop, when the law clearly tells them to "Collect everything."