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Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregard

by Torgo 12y ago

Sally Kohn of CNN: "It is not inconsistent to believe in free speech AND be against insulting other people’s faith traditions. #CharlieHedbo" Totally disregarding that machine-gunning to death 11 people because you're offended, which is what just happened, is a gross violation of free speech in addition to being a human tragedy. By bringing this up right now, how could this be interpreted any other way than believing these tragedies wouldn't happen if those people weren't so darn disrespectful of Muslims.

mercer 12y ago
I agree with that statement in isolation, but in context it does seem misplaced.
AnimalMuppet 12y ago
Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it. I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.) On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's faith traditions to be a virtue. What's more, we live in a world where violent extremists exist. That's reality. They shouldn't exist, but this is not an ideal world. They're out there. When you choose to deliberately insult the cherished beliefs of violent extremists, in the real world you have to know that you are likely to cause some consequences. (Let me be very clear here. The violent extremists are morally responsible for the violent reaction. But when you push their buttons, you have to know that their buttons are hot-wired to their trigger fingers.) Now, you may conclude that it's worth it to demonstrate that these people really are violent extremists. That's your choice. I'm not saying that you're wrong. But you'd better think it through before you do it, because the way the world actually works, you may receive some consequences.
- venomsnake 12y ago
  The people that died today were a warriors. In a war that I am not sure you even realize is waging. The war for the freedom of the human mind. Humor, satire, mockery - they all help society to see through haze. Because nothing should be sacrosanct. The moment we say that even a single thing is ... then everything that suits the powers that be will be.
  - Shivetya 12y ago
    because this is not just about freedom of speech, it is about freedom of religion, the freedom to live your life as you so choose in any shape or form that does not negatively impact others. these people do not believe in any self determination.
- danieldk 12y ago
  On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's faith traditions to be a virtue. I don't see that. This is a magazine that you can choose to buy or to ignore. If you don't want to be insulted (most satirical magazines insult everyone, including me), don't buy it.
- Torgo 12y ago
  I can guarantee you that's not what she means, or if so, it would be wildly inconsistent with the definition of victim blaming re. rape victims which she supports. You would never, ever, catch her saying "it was a completely expected outcome if you lead the guy on" or digress about how so many girls dress so provocatively. She would rightly focus on the exact crime and its perpetrator.
- xgbi 12y ago
  There's a big, big, big difference between insult and satire. I'll let you think about that for a while. Charlie was a satirical paper, it was here to provoke thoughts, not just for muslims. The people that took the insult were the people that don't understand satire.
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
Nothing positive can come out of being against insulting other people's faith tradition, or insulting ideas in general. It's just ideas. You're free to have them and express them, everyone else is free to agree with them or ridicule them. Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime and the foundation of freedom.
- DanBC 12y ago
  > Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime Propaganda using cartoons has been used at all levels of oppression from small groups targeting Others to genocide. Don't make the mistake of thinking that a cartoon is not an act of violence - because they can be. (Just for clarity: this does not mean they should be banned)
  - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
    That's not saying much, though: everything can be considered an act of violence when interpreted by twisted minds. You can get assaulted just for merely looking at someone's wife. I am just shocked to hear a CNN representative say that we should find ways to avoid offending people with words: this is not just a futile endeavor, it's a very dangerous one that leads to thought police and arbitrary sentences.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]

by Torgo 12y ago

mercer 12y ago

I agree with that statement in isolation, but in context it does seem misplaced.

AnimalMuppet 12y ago

Sally Kohn is actually right in what you quoted, even if not in where you think she's going with it. I believe in free speech, including the right to insult other people's faith traditions. (Other people feel free to insult my faith traditions, and do so on a semi-regular basis. I respond with speech, not with bullets or bombs.) On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's faith traditions to be a virtue. What's more, we live in a world where violent extremists exist. That's reality. They shouldn't exist, but this is not an ideal world. They're out there. When you choose to deliberately insult the cherished beliefs of violent extremists, in the real world you have to know that you are likely to cause some consequences. (Let me be very clear here. The violent extremists are morally responsible for the violent reaction. But when you push their buttons, you have to know that their buttons are hot-wired to their trigger fingers.) Now, you may conclude that it's worth it to demonstrate that these people really are violent extremists. That's your choice. I'm not saying that you're wrong. But you'd better think it through before you do it, because the way the world actually works, you may receive some consequences.

venomsnake 12y ago
The people that died today were a warriors. In a war that I am not sure you even realize is waging. The war for the freedom of the human mind. Humor, satire, mockery - they all help society to see through haze. Because nothing should be sacrosanct. The moment we say that even a single thing is ... then everything that suits the powers that be will be.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  because this is not just about freedom of speech, it is about freedom of religion, the freedom to live your life as you so choose in any shape or form that does not negatively impact others. these people do not believe in any self determination.
danieldk 12y ago
On the other hand, basic politeness means that I do not consider insulting other people's faith traditions to be a virtue. I don't see that. This is a magazine that you can choose to buy or to ignore. If you don't want to be insulted (most satirical magazines insult everyone, including me), don't buy it.
Torgo 12y ago
I can guarantee you that's not what she means, or if so, it would be wildly inconsistent with the definition of victim blaming re. rape victims which she supports. You would never, ever, catch her saying "it was a completely expected outcome if you lead the guy on" or digress about how so many girls dress so provocatively. She would rightly focus on the exact crime and its perpetrator.
xgbi 12y ago
There's a big, big, big difference between insult and satire. I'll let you think about that for a while. Charlie was a satirical paper, it was here to provoke thoughts, not just for muslims. The people that took the insult were the people that don't understand satire.

zak_mc_kracken 12y ago

Nothing positive can come out of being against insulting other people's faith tradition, or insulting ideas in general. It's just ideas. You're free to have them and express them, everyone else is free to agree with them or ridicule them. Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime and the foundation of freedom.

DanBC 12y ago
> Ridiculing ideas is a victimless crime Propaganda using cartoons has been used at all levels of oppression from small groups targeting Others to genocide. Don't make the mistake of thinking that a cartoon is not an act of violence - because they can be. (Just for clarity: this does not mean they should be banned)
- zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
  That's not saying much, though: everything can be considered an act of violence when interpreted by twisted minds. You can get assaulted just for merely looking at someone's wife. I am just shocked to hear a CNN representative say that we should find ways to avoid offending people with words: this is not just a futile endeavor, it's a very dangerous one that leads to thought police and arbitrary sentences.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]