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From the Times editorial board: > If the Police Department’s current commanders cannot get the cops to do their jobs, Mr. de Blasio should consider replacing t

From the Times editorial board: > If the Police Department’s current commanders cannot get the cops to do their jobs, Mr. de Blasio should consider replacing them. > He should invite the Justice Department to determine if the police are guilty of civil rights violations in withdrawing policing from minority communities. > He should remind the police that they are public employees, under oath to uphold city and state laws. I could not agree more.

ams6110 12y ago
Or maybe he could just show them a little respect.
- krschultz 12y ago
  Every police officer takes an oath. It generally goes like this: "On my honor, I will never betray my badge, my integrity, my character or the public trust. I will always have the courage to hold myself and others accountable for our actions. I will always uphold the Constitution, my community, and the agency I serve." I'm missing the part where there is an "if my mayor coddles my feelings the right way" line in there.
- rbcgerard 12y ago
  respect is earned not demanded. Furthermore, the duty of "respect" is for public servants to the duly elected representative of the people they serve, not the other way around.
- charonn0 12y ago
  It's very hard to respect the petulant and passive-aggressive behavior they're displaying.
angersock 12y ago
He should remind the police that they are public employees, under oath to uphold city and state laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
- ovulator 12y ago
  The ruling "[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists." They still have the duty, but it does not necessarily apply on an individual basis.
  - angersock 12y ago
    So, they don't actually have the duty in any meaningful implementation sense, is what you're saying.
    - danans 12y ago
      That's carrying it a bit far, and I don't think that's what the GP was saying at all. I think they meant that police officers have a duty to enforce the law in each situation they are presented with. And law enforcement situations are composed of individuals, some of whom may or may not be breaking the law - we give the officer the right to make a snap judgement on this in emergencies. For example, if an officer arrives at a situation where one individual is robbing another, then their duty to the public (and to the victim) is to try to prevent the robber from victimizing the other individual, or apprehend the robber if he has already committed the crime. In attempting to do so, they uphold their law enforcement duty to the public. Just as much, it is important for the officer to follow the law in the process of enforcing it, which is at the crux of the debates around the death of unarmed individuals by police.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- AcerbicZero 12y ago
  While your link is not exactly pertinent to the above conversation, it does highlight how vulnerable people can be to violent action, regardless of police presence, and it serves as a reminder that personal security is in the hands of the individual, not the state.
- uiberto 12y ago
everyOtherTime 12y ago
...so, like, were you the kid in class who always reminded the teachers when they forgot to assign homework? After all, what this is really all about, is an attack aimed to reduce all the funds that those delicious, orange parking tickets generate. All the petty nuisance tickets, and summonses, and violations that harvest money from non-violent citizens, rather than produce burdens by incurring imprisonment costs. You do realize this, right?
- raldi 12y ago
  Hi, I see you're new here, so you might not know yet, but ad hominem attacks like your opening sentence are not welcome on Hacker News.
  - korzun 12y ago
    > Hi, I see you're new here Hey, ad hominems like your opening sentence are not welcome on Hacker News :)
    - raldi 12y ago
      That wasn't an ad hominem attack, but an ad hominem greeting.
      - everyOtherTime 12y ago
        > assuming I'm new here. Hi, I see that you have more than 500 karma, so you probably downvoted me. That's great, because I created this throw-away account specifically because of thin-skinned people like you. Did that last sentence also come across as an ad hominem attack?
        raldi 12y ago
        The fact that you're taking the time to make an account and post comments tells me that you value the ability to influence people's minds. Posting ad hominem attacks on Hacker News is counterproductive to that goal. It will attract downvotes, which will turn your comment white and make it hard to read. Comments that are hard to read don't work very well for influencing people. Also, even if your comment weren't downvoted, ad hominems still tend to inhibit your words' ability to change people's minds. You'll be a more effective writer if you eschew them.
korzun 12y ago
You can't replace the union and NYPD has some serious voting power. So have fun with that.

ams6110 12y ago

Or maybe he could just show them a little respect.

krschultz 12y ago
Every police officer takes an oath. It generally goes like this: "On my honor, I will never betray my badge, my integrity, my character or the public trust. I will always have the courage to hold myself and others accountable for our actions. I will always uphold the Constitution, my community, and the agency I serve." I'm missing the part where there is an "if my mayor coddles my feelings the right way" line in there.
rbcgerard 12y ago
respect is earned not demanded. Furthermore, the duty of "respect" is for public servants to the duly elected representative of the people they serve, not the other way around.
charonn0 12y ago
It's very hard to respect the petulant and passive-aggressive behavior they're displaying.

angersock 12y ago

He should remind the police that they are public employees, under oath to uphold city and state laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

ovulator 12y ago
The ruling "[t]he duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists." They still have the duty, but it does not necessarily apply on an individual basis.
- angersock 12y ago
  So, they don't actually have the duty in any meaningful implementation sense, is what you're saying.
  - danans 12y ago
    That's carrying it a bit far, and I don't think that's what the GP was saying at all. I think they meant that police officers have a duty to enforce the law in each situation they are presented with. And law enforcement situations are composed of individuals, some of whom may or may not be breaking the law - we give the officer the right to make a snap judgement on this in emergencies. For example, if an officer arrives at a situation where one individual is robbing another, then their duty to the public (and to the victim) is to try to prevent the robber from victimizing the other individual, or apprehend the robber if he has already committed the crime. In attempting to do so, they uphold their law enforcement duty to the public. Just as much, it is important for the officer to follow the law in the process of enforcing it, which is at the crux of the debates around the death of unarmed individuals by police.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
AcerbicZero 12y ago
While your link is not exactly pertinent to the above conversation, it does highlight how vulnerable people can be to violent action, regardless of police presence, and it serves as a reminder that personal security is in the hands of the individual, not the state.
uiberto 12y ago

everyOtherTime 12y ago

...so, like, were you the kid in class who always reminded the teachers when they forgot to assign homework? After all, what this is really all about, is an attack aimed to reduce all the funds that those delicious, orange parking tickets generate. All the petty nuisance tickets, and summonses, and violations that harvest money from non-violent citizens, rather than produce burdens by incurring imprisonment costs. You do realize this, right?

raldi 12y ago
Hi, I see you're new here, so you might not know yet, but ad hominem attacks like your opening sentence are not welcome on Hacker News.
- korzun 12y ago
  > Hi, I see you're new here Hey, ad hominems like your opening sentence are not welcome on Hacker News :)
  - raldi 12y ago
    That wasn't an ad hominem attack, but an ad hominem greeting.
    - everyOtherTime 12y ago
      > assuming I'm new here. Hi, I see that you have more than 500 karma, so you probably downvoted me. That's great, because I created this throw-away account specifically because of thin-skinned people like you. Did that last sentence also come across as an ad hominem attack?
      - raldi 12y ago
        The fact that you're taking the time to make an account and post comments tells me that you value the ability to influence people's minds. Posting ad hominem attacks on Hacker News is counterproductive to that goal. It will attract downvotes, which will turn your comment white and make it hard to read. Comments that are hard to read don't work very well for influencing people. Also, even if your comment weren't downvoted, ad hominems still tend to inhibit your words' ability to change people's minds. You'll be a more effective writer if you eschew them.

korzun 12y ago

You can't replace the union and NYPD has some serious voting power. So have fun with that.