5 ms·

Snapdragon processors address mobile security with smartphone kill switch

38 points by finid 12y ago

erglkjahlkh 12y ago
What really scares is me is "combined with third party service provider support" part. That means it is not just you who has the capability to flip the switch. Imagine someone breaking into service provider's database, acquiring all the keys. That couldn't surely happen, could it?
- finid 12y ago
  That, plus backdoor access by your favorite, 3-letter govt agency.
- extrapolate 12y ago
  There needs to be another party in there to communicate with the phone regardless, right? I simply interpret that quote to mean you can use the "switch" with a 3rd party service like Android Device Manager / Cerberus, that Qualcomm is not operating directly. Actually, looking at the video it appears they're partnering with https://www.lookout.com/ https://www.lookout.com/ for this.
- jen729w 12y ago
  I saw the same sentence but I just laughed - I read that as "your crappy provider has to somehow enable this, which they're obviously not going to bother doing".
- rdc12 12y ago
  Depends if Sony is hosting them or not (this is only partially a joke)
- th0br0 12y ago
  Intel's been offering that for some of their processors for quite some time (vPro)... also third party provider, I believe they inject a rootkit into Windows upon bootup. But you can (supposedly) irreversibly disable it fortunately.
nether 12y ago
mother of god
subhro 12y ago
Also, I am wondering is this different from say, Apple iPhone Locator (apart from the fact that this is relevant to Android)? I think with the latest OS, unless you choose a weak password, your device pretty much could be made a brick if stolen?
mitkok 12y ago
So crackers use JavaScript to extract data from smartphones ?
zkirill 12y ago
I feel that if the absence of a kill switch is a deciding factor for you when choosing a smartphone then you shouldn't be using a smartphone in the first place. Also, interestingly enough Blackberry isn't a part of the Group which aligns pretty well with their image. http://www.cio.com/article/2370034/smartphones/blackberry-not-a-part-of-smartphone--kill-switch--group--updated-.html http://www.cio.com/article/2370034/smartphones/blackberry-no...
lvs 12y ago
A radio and network interface that comes up before the bootloader? Sounds like awesome fun!
azinman2 12y ago
My question is will this work even without a SIM card. My father recent had his iPhone stolen and within 10 minutes I had gone into iCloud and turned on remote wipe. Unfortunately the thief was smart enough to remove the sim and make sure it never saw Internet while breaking into the phone enough to the point that he got an email the next day that google had blocked someone nearby trying to log into his gmail. Who know what else was gleaned from the phone itself. It's difficult to force a remote reset when you no longer have physical control over the device. Baseband support on a separate battery might be one of the few ways to help increase the probability of protection.
- sargun 12y ago
  Doesn't that effectively become a "Two Generals' Problem" sort of thing? I mean, I guess links are reliable enough, but at what point do you decide when link severance is long enough to wipe the phone? What occurs if iCloud is down for that long?
- TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
  At which point the thief takes the phone into a basement of an office complex or something. Somewhere with no cell reception. Even wrapping the phone in (grounded) tinfoil would probably work.
na85 12y ago
Qualcomm is widely known to be cozy with certain clandestine agencies. I'm quite certain, nay, positive, that this kill switch can be abused by government agents and police forces. How long until this is used against dissenters? Against protesters in some Middle Eastern dictatorship? Hell, how long until the NYPD rolls out a Stingray with kill-switch-tripping capability? I'm betting not long. The world needs an open baseband processor and accompanying OS/firmware.
- kristoffer 12y ago
  If it is well known I suppose you can provide something to back that up?
  - mikeyouse 12y ago
    From one of the leaked Snowden powerpoints, Qualcomm is listed as an 'NSA Strategic Partner': http://i.imgur.com/V211k8o.jpg http://i.imgur.com/V211k8o.jpg The NSA defines these relationships as, "Unique key corporate partnerships to high-capacity international fiber-optic cables, switches and/or routers throughout the world" It's worth noting that Qualcomm was founded 30 years ago specifically to provide communications equipment to the pentagon[1]. Also General Scowcroft, George HW Bush's Assistant for National Security Affairs, is a current board member.[2] [1] - https://www.qualcomm.com/company/about/history https://www.qualcomm.com/company/about/history [2] - http://investor.qualcomm.com/directors.cfm http://investor.qualcomm.com/directors.cfm
jcrawfordor 12y ago
An interesting thought experiment is to consider how differently this would be perceived if they branded this as something like "remote disable" rather than using the politically charged term "kill switch." I suspect a lot of the dissenters would disappear.
blueskin_ 12y ago
I give it a month before trolls are disabling people's phones for fun.
darklajid 12y ago
Featuring a OnePlus One in the (hilarious) video. I hope I'm not accidentally running around with this 'feature'?
tomaskafka 12y ago
Turning three-letter-agency requests into consumer 'features' since 2001.

38 points by finid 12y ago

What really scares is me is "combined with third party service provider support" part. That means it is not just you who has the capability to flip the switch. Imagine someone breaking into service provider's database, acquiring all the keys. That couldn't surely happen, could it?

finid 12y ago
That, plus backdoor access by your favorite, 3-letter govt agency.
extrapolate 12y ago
There needs to be another party in there to communicate with the phone regardless, right? I simply interpret that quote to mean you can use the "switch" with a 3rd party service like Android Device Manager / Cerberus, that Qualcomm is not operating directly. Actually, looking at the video it appears they're partnering with https://www.lookout.com/ https://www.lookout.com/ for this.
jen729w 12y ago
I saw the same sentence but I just laughed - I read that as "your crappy provider has to somehow enable this, which they're obviously not going to bother doing".
rdc12 12y ago
Depends if Sony is hosting them or not (this is only partially a joke)
th0br0 12y ago
Intel's been offering that for some of their processors for quite some time (vPro)... also third party provider, I believe they inject a rootkit into Windows upon bootup. But you can (supposedly) irreversibly disable it fortunately.

nether 12y ago

mother of god

subhro 12y ago

Also, I am wondering is this different from say, Apple iPhone Locator (apart from the fact that this is relevant to Android)? I think with the latest OS, unless you choose a weak password, your device pretty much could be made a brick if stolen?

mitkok 12y ago

So crackers use JavaScript to extract data from smartphones ?

zkirill 12y ago

I feel that if the absence of a kill switch is a deciding factor for you when choosing a smartphone then you shouldn't be using a smartphone in the first place. Also, interestingly enough Blackberry isn't a part of the Group which aligns pretty well with their image. http://www.cio.com/article/2370034/smartphones/blackberry-not-a-part-of-smartphone--kill-switch--group--updated-.html http://www.cio.com/article/2370034/smartphones/blackberry-no...

lvs 12y ago

A radio and network interface that comes up before the bootloader? Sounds like awesome fun!

azinman2 12y ago

My question is will this work even without a SIM card. My father recent had his iPhone stolen and within 10 minutes I had gone into iCloud and turned on remote wipe. Unfortunately the thief was smart enough to remove the sim and make sure it never saw Internet while breaking into the phone enough to the point that he got an email the next day that google had blocked someone nearby trying to log into his gmail. Who know what else was gleaned from the phone itself. It's difficult to force a remote reset when you no longer have physical control over the device. Baseband support on a separate battery might be one of the few ways to help increase the probability of protection.

sargun 12y ago
Doesn't that effectively become a "Two Generals' Problem" sort of thing? I mean, I guess links are reliable enough, but at what point do you decide when link severance is long enough to wipe the phone? What occurs if iCloud is down for that long?
TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
At which point the thief takes the phone into a basement of an office complex or something. Somewhere with no cell reception. Even wrapping the phone in (grounded) tinfoil would probably work.

na85 12y ago

Qualcomm is widely known to be cozy with certain clandestine agencies. I'm quite certain, nay, positive, that this kill switch can be abused by government agents and police forces. How long until this is used against dissenters? Against protesters in some Middle Eastern dictatorship? Hell, how long until the NYPD rolls out a Stingray with kill-switch-tripping capability? I'm betting not long. The world needs an open baseband processor and accompanying OS/firmware.

kristoffer 12y ago
If it is well known I suppose you can provide something to back that up?
- mikeyouse 12y ago
  From one of the leaked Snowden powerpoints, Qualcomm is listed as an 'NSA Strategic Partner': http://i.imgur.com/V211k8o.jpg http://i.imgur.com/V211k8o.jpg The NSA defines these relationships as, "Unique key corporate partnerships to high-capacity international fiber-optic cables, switches and/or routers throughout the world" It's worth noting that Qualcomm was founded 30 years ago specifically to provide communications equipment to the pentagon[1]. Also General Scowcroft, George HW Bush's Assistant for National Security Affairs, is a current board member.[2] [1] - https://www.qualcomm.com/company/about/history https://www.qualcomm.com/company/about/history [2] - http://investor.qualcomm.com/directors.cfm http://investor.qualcomm.com/directors.cfm

jcrawfordor 12y ago

An interesting thought experiment is to consider how differently this would be perceived if they branded this as something like "remote disable" rather than using the politically charged term "kill switch." I suspect a lot of the dissenters would disappear.

blueskin_ 12y ago

I give it a month before trolls are disabling people's phones for fun.

darklajid 12y ago

Featuring a OnePlus One in the (hilarious) video. I hope I'm not accidentally running around with this 'feature'?

tomaskafka 12y ago

Turning three-letter-agency requests into consumer 'features' since 2001.