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In my opinion, Amazon should have gone with a generic budget phone to augment their "Amazon Basics" line of dependable, economical cables, USB hubs, and so fort

In my opinion, Amazon should have gone with a generic budget phone to augment their "Amazon Basics" line of dependable, economical cables, USB hubs, and so forth. I would make it a plain, vanilla Nexus-like phone running vanilla Android with no skins and not tied to any contracts or carriers, but priced $50 less than a comparable Nexus 5 or whatever is the current Nexus. Or else, make it about $400 but throw in a year of Prime to sweeten the deal. Maybe add a couple of features to distinguish it, such as a microSD memory expansion port. Forget the lame Amazon AppStore, or at least provide both -- AppStore and Google Play, and let the customer choose. Such a device might not sell 20 million units in the first week, but it would sell a heck of a lot better than the Fire Phone did. Heck, I would have bought one. I went with a Nexus 5 just a couple of months ago, after the very pricey Nexus 6 was announced. There's a good market for a vanilla, plain Android phone, and Prime would make it a no-brainer. The article makes Bezos sound a bit over-controlling and zany, but at least the author hastens to add that second guessing Bezos and Amazon is a risky business. Who knows? Perhaps the Fire 2 will get it right. (I hope Jeff's reading this!)

nilkn 12y ago
> I would make it a plain, vanilla Nexus-like phone running vanilla Android with no skins and not tied to any contracts or carriers, but priced $50 less than a comparable Nexus 5 or whatever is the current Nexus. Or else, make it about $400 but throw in a year of Prime to sweeten the deal. Maybe add a couple of features to distinguish it, such as a microSD memory expansion port. Forget the lame Amazon AppStore, or at least provide both -- AppStore and Google Play, and let the customer choose. If they'd actually done this, it'd probably be a pretty good competitor to the Nexus 6, which is not a bad phone at all but departed quite a bit from the precedent of the Nexus 5, other than running stock Android. (Huge, very expensive.) The Android market is ripe for a true successor of the Nexus 5, and Amazon would have made a lot of sense to fill that niche. The best thing we've got right now is the 2014 Moto X, which admittedly is a very good phone.
- soylentcola 12y ago
  Yep. The power button on my Nexus 5 just went up and I had the choice of throwing money at a 14-month-old phone (which is a bit sooner than I had hoped to replace it but old enough that I had to think twice about paying for maintenance) or buying a new phone. Nexus 6 at $650 and in a larger form factor than I would like got me to buy a Moto X instead. $200 cheaper and in a more reasonable size made it the closest thing to a Nexus 5 replacement I ran across. I would have gladly considered something from Amazon if it had been along the lines of an updated Nexus 5 (under $400, stock or virtually stock like the Moto X) even if, like the Nexus line, it sacrificed a bit of that premium "Cadillac" polish like the wooden back and metal edged frame. Only reason I even bothered with that is because there wasn't a cheaper Nexus that wasn't the year+ old N5. Hell...don't even bundle gapps if you want to include the Amazon store...just as long as someone can build AOSP for it and I can install it myself. When the Nexus 7 came out it was roughly equivalent to the Kindle Fire in terms of price and specs but other than fellow Android fans and tech site readers, I didn't know anyone else who bought a Nexus 7. Everyone I knew who wanted an affordable (read: cheaper than an iPad) but functional small tablet bought Kindle Fires so clearly their brand awareness and marketing is worth something if people were willing to buy an slightly inferior device for $50 more.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dotBen 12y ago
The whole point of the exercise is not to just ship volumes of units, but build an ecosystem (just like what Apple and Google are doing too). A budget phone doesn't work because it won't be geared up to play the music and video and all of the other traits Amazon is looking at with it's 'Fire' ecosystem. > Forget the lame Amazon AppStore, or at least provide both -- AppStore and Google Play, and let the customer choose. Again, the point here is NOT to let the customer choose, it's to force the consumer into their ecosystem instead of Googles. Switching costs are high, so getting people hooked into the Amazon Appstore might mean a lifetime customer, etc. One of the reason Amazon has designed Fire Tablets for children. And this is another reason the Fire Phone is having a hard time - developers think the Amazon AppStore is shit.
- nkozyra 12y ago
  > A budget phone doesn't work because it won't be geared up to play the music and video and all of the other traits Amazon is looking at with it's 'Fire' ecosystem. A "budget phone" in price may not be a budget phone in capability. Amazon surely wouldn't be the first company with a loss-leader hardware device that encourages lock-in.
- themartorana 12y ago
  Well, to be fair, we don't think it's shit, we just don't think there are enough potential customers for the investment. It's not just "build to another store" - my servers have to have yet another push notification service route, I need to coordinate another App Store release schedule, I have to implement another IAP framework, implement another signing path, and buy and test another set of devices. That's money, baby. Lots of it. And unlike Mr. Bezos, I don't have thousands - let alone millions - of dollars to burn. It's the same reason we don't build to Windows app store or Blackberry app store without incentives from Microsoft or Blackberry to help get us there.
  - mschuster91 12y ago
    Hasn't Amazon actually gone the route of recoding all Google Play related infrastructure so that seamless porting is possible?
_red 12y ago
I agree, but I think "budget" is the wrong concept. It should've been "simple smartphone". 5 big buttons on the screen: (a) Phone, (b) Text / Email, (c) Music (d) Pictures, (e) Shop (each of those apps linked into to Amazon services) There is not really a market for making another hi-tech whiz-bang phone for nerds, that market is sewed up. They need the phone version of their kindle. A one-week battery life. A device deceptively simple...something that soccer-moms would use while waiting for Timmy's soccer practice to finish. Interestingly, I bet this is the tact Microsoft takes with their new Nokia announcements
deciplex 12y ago
I'd get this too, providing they really did just make a no bullshit phone with stock Android and no stupid skin like HTC and Samsung phones. I've been using Nexus phones for a number of years, but looking for alternatives now that Google has jumped on board the 'we don't know the fucking difference between a phone and a tablet' bandwagon. An extra app store in addition to (definitely not instead of) would be fine, and I'd probably use it. But I'm not buying a Fire, obviously.
LordHumungous 12y ago
I have one, its called the Moto G. It comes with near stock Android, it costs $200 without a contract, and I freaking love it. To see the future of cell phones look at the story PC's: prices will fall and quality will become uniformly high- and margins will become razor thin, except for premium brands (aka Apple). This is a tough, tough kind of market for any company to enter.
- greedo 12y ago
  In what PC world is the quality uniformly high?
  - LordHumungous 12y ago
    Perhaps I should have said that the quality is uniform for a particular price point.
ewzimm 12y ago
I have seen so many people blame Amazon for not including Google Play, but this is really Google's decision. In order to use Google Play Services, you need to make all of Google's services default and unremovable. This was done specifically so companies like Amazon could not include it on devices meant to push competing services. Even though I use plenty of Google software, I am more than happy to see them have competition. They honestly do not have enough, and I am glad Amazon is working to offer an alternative to total Google control on Android. Android is fine now, but increasing centralization is not going to benefit anyone but Google. Acquiescing and becoming just another company pushing Google services would be a terrible move for Amazon.
- ufmace 12y ago
  I'm surprised that so few other people on this comment thread seem to get it. Google Play and the associated Services ecosystem exists for the sole purpose of forbidding exactly what Amazon is trying to do. Amazon's sole purpose for this phone is as a way to get phone customers into their ecosystem first, and Google's stuff exists to get people on the Google ecosystem first. A first-party device with Google Play and Amazon services is Not. Gonna. Happen.
  - blisterpeanuts 12y ago
    Why. Not. Does Google forbid 3rd party app stores on a device with full Google Services installed?
    - yellowapple 12y ago
      I actually wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. They already don't allow third-party app stores (like Amazon's app store or F-Droid) on the Play Store last I checked; in both cases, you have to enable app installation from "untrusted sources" and download/install the APKs manually.
  - chetanahuja 12y ago
    "Google Play and the associated Services ecosystem exists for the sole purpose of forbidding exactly what Amazon is trying to do" Er... are you sure android apps for gmail, calendar, drive, youtube, maps etc. and not to mention, the play store for android exist for the sole purpose of blocking third parties? Surely they have their own utility to users... no?
Steko 12y ago
Let's be honest, no one (rounding down) cares about vanilla android and microSD ports. The only thing that's going to move the dial for an Amazon phone is exclusive hardware or software features and you can forget about third party software. They tried this angle and because they aren't that good at this in the first place (like Facebook), what they came up with stank.

nilkn 12y ago

> I would make it a plain, vanilla Nexus-like phone running vanilla Android with no skins and not tied to any contracts or carriers, but priced $50 less than a comparable Nexus 5 or whatever is the current Nexus. Or else, make it about $400 but throw in a year of Prime to sweeten the deal. Maybe add a couple of features to distinguish it, such as a microSD memory expansion port. Forget the lame Amazon AppStore, or at least provide both -- AppStore and Google Play, and let the customer choose. If they'd actually done this, it'd probably be a pretty good competitor to the Nexus 6, which is not a bad phone at all but departed quite a bit from the precedent of the Nexus 5, other than running stock Android. (Huge, very expensive.) The Android market is ripe for a true successor of the Nexus 5, and Amazon would have made a lot of sense to fill that niche. The best thing we've got right now is the 2014 Moto X, which admittedly is a very good phone.

soylentcola 12y ago
Yep. The power button on my Nexus 5 just went up and I had the choice of throwing money at a 14-month-old phone (which is a bit sooner than I had hoped to replace it but old enough that I had to think twice about paying for maintenance) or buying a new phone. Nexus 6 at $650 and in a larger form factor than I would like got me to buy a Moto X instead. $200 cheaper and in a more reasonable size made it the closest thing to a Nexus 5 replacement I ran across. I would have gladly considered something from Amazon if it had been along the lines of an updated Nexus 5 (under $400, stock or virtually stock like the Moto X) even if, like the Nexus line, it sacrificed a bit of that premium "Cadillac" polish like the wooden back and metal edged frame. Only reason I even bothered with that is because there wasn't a cheaper Nexus that wasn't the year+ old N5. Hell...don't even bundle gapps if you want to include the Amazon store...just as long as someone can build AOSP for it and I can install it myself. When the Nexus 7 came out it was roughly equivalent to the Kindle Fire in terms of price and specs but other than fellow Android fans and tech site readers, I didn't know anyone else who bought a Nexus 7. Everyone I knew who wanted an affordable (read: cheaper than an iPad) but functional small tablet bought Kindle Fires so clearly their brand awareness and marketing is worth something if people were willing to buy an slightly inferior device for $50 more.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dotBen 12y ago

The whole point of the exercise is not to just ship volumes of units, but build an ecosystem (just like what Apple and Google are doing too). A budget phone doesn't work because it won't be geared up to play the music and video and all of the other traits Amazon is looking at with it's 'Fire' ecosystem. > Forget the lame Amazon AppStore, or at least provide both -- AppStore and Google Play, and let the customer choose. Again, the point here is NOT to let the customer choose, it's to force the consumer into their ecosystem instead of Googles. Switching costs are high, so getting people hooked into the Amazon Appstore might mean a lifetime customer, etc. One of the reason Amazon has designed Fire Tablets for children. And this is another reason the Fire Phone is having a hard time - developers think the Amazon AppStore is shit.

nkozyra 12y ago
> A budget phone doesn't work because it won't be geared up to play the music and video and all of the other traits Amazon is looking at with it's 'Fire' ecosystem. A "budget phone" in price may not be a budget phone in capability. Amazon surely wouldn't be the first company with a loss-leader hardware device that encourages lock-in.
themartorana 12y ago
Well, to be fair, we don't think it's shit, we just don't think there are enough potential customers for the investment. It's not just "build to another store" - my servers have to have yet another push notification service route, I need to coordinate another App Store release schedule, I have to implement another IAP framework, implement another signing path, and buy and test another set of devices. That's money, baby. Lots of it. And unlike Mr. Bezos, I don't have thousands - let alone millions - of dollars to burn. It's the same reason we don't build to Windows app store or Blackberry app store without incentives from Microsoft or Blackberry to help get us there.
- mschuster91 12y ago
  Hasn't Amazon actually gone the route of recoding all Google Play related infrastructure so that seamless porting is possible?

_red 12y ago

I agree, but I think "budget" is the wrong concept. It should've been "simple smartphone". 5 big buttons on the screen: (a) Phone, (b) Text / Email, (c) Music (d) Pictures, (e) Shop (each of those apps linked into to Amazon services) There is not really a market for making another hi-tech whiz-bang phone for nerds, that market is sewed up. They need the phone version of their kindle. A one-week battery life. A device deceptively simple...something that soccer-moms would use while waiting for Timmy's soccer practice to finish. Interestingly, I bet this is the tact Microsoft takes with their new Nokia announcements

deciplex 12y ago

I'd get this too, providing they really did just make a no bullshit phone with stock Android and no stupid skin like HTC and Samsung phones. I've been using Nexus phones for a number of years, but looking for alternatives now that Google has jumped on board the 'we don't know the fucking difference between a phone and a tablet' bandwagon. An extra app store in addition to (definitely not instead of) would be fine, and I'd probably use it. But I'm not buying a Fire, obviously.

LordHumungous 12y ago

I have one, its called the Moto G. It comes with near stock Android, it costs $200 without a contract, and I freaking love it. To see the future of cell phones look at the story PC's: prices will fall and quality will become uniformly high- and margins will become razor thin, except for premium brands (aka Apple). This is a tough, tough kind of market for any company to enter.

greedo 12y ago
In what PC world is the quality uniformly high?
- LordHumungous 12y ago
  Perhaps I should have said that the quality is uniform for a particular price point.

ewzimm 12y ago

I have seen so many people blame Amazon for not including Google Play, but this is really Google's decision. In order to use Google Play Services, you need to make all of Google's services default and unremovable. This was done specifically so companies like Amazon could not include it on devices meant to push competing services. Even though I use plenty of Google software, I am more than happy to see them have competition. They honestly do not have enough, and I am glad Amazon is working to offer an alternative to total Google control on Android. Android is fine now, but increasing centralization is not going to benefit anyone but Google. Acquiescing and becoming just another company pushing Google services would be a terrible move for Amazon.

ufmace 12y ago
I'm surprised that so few other people on this comment thread seem to get it. Google Play and the associated Services ecosystem exists for the sole purpose of forbidding exactly what Amazon is trying to do. Amazon's sole purpose for this phone is as a way to get phone customers into their ecosystem first, and Google's stuff exists to get people on the Google ecosystem first. A first-party device with Google Play and Amazon services is Not. Gonna. Happen.
- blisterpeanuts 12y ago
  Why. Not. Does Google forbid 3rd party app stores on a device with full Google Services installed?
  - yellowapple 12y ago
    I actually wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. They already don't allow third-party app stores (like Amazon's app store or F-Droid) on the Play Store last I checked; in both cases, you have to enable app installation from "untrusted sources" and download/install the APKs manually.
- chetanahuja 12y ago
  "Google Play and the associated Services ecosystem exists for the sole purpose of forbidding exactly what Amazon is trying to do" Er... are you sure android apps for gmail, calendar, drive, youtube, maps etc. and not to mention, the play store for android exist for the sole purpose of blocking third parties? Surely they have their own utility to users... no?

Steko 12y ago

Let's be honest, no one (rounding down) cares about vanilla android and microSD ports. The only thing that's going to move the dial for an Amazon phone is exclusive hardware or software features and you can forget about third party software. They tried this angle and because they aren't that good at this in the first place (like Facebook), what they came up with stank.