7 ms·

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm

by EC1 12y ago

I can't wrap my head around tipping. Why do I have to pay extra? Why doesn't their employer pay them. Can someone explain tipping to me? Because apparently I'm the worst person on the planet for not tipping.

crmd 12y ago
The theory is to incentivize awesome service by having each customer decide how much compensation to give based on the server's performance. Those who delight customers make more money, while whose who are bad at customer service make little money and are incentivized to leave the industry and do something not customer-facing.
- ENGNR 12y ago
  How hard is it to bring someone a menu and then bring them the food they ask for? I don't want to be delighted by the service, I'm there for the food and people I'm there with.
  - jmccree 12y ago
    Have you ever worked at popular sit down restaurant during a dinner rush? It's a mad house... Not easy at all. Good service is knowing the menu and wine/drink list. Being able to provide recommendations and advice on what to order. Trying to write down all the orders at this table while you see an empty water glass and someone is taking 5 minutes to decide which salad to order and you know there's food for another table getting cold in the window. If you just want food and a place to sit, there's plenty of fast food/fast casual restaurants. If you go to a place with wait staff, it's because you are going to get waited on. A good wait person can be the difference in having a wonderful night or a horrible one.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
      Waitstaff are critical, and should be trained. Good waitstaff are a joy (prompt, pleasant, know the menu and can make suggestions, preemptively help avoid problems, revisit but don't keep badgering you). However there's no night I don't cook that is 'horrible'. Its can be frustrating or amusing depending on my attitude. But if I'm sitting down and getting fed, then the rest is gravy.
js2 12y ago
I tip folks in the service industry whenever I have a chance, not just wait staff. I'll tip mechanics, my postal delivery person, the guy who delivers firewood, the hotel maid, etc. The way I see it, it's a very small percentage of my income to someone doing a job I'm glad I don't have to do. I worked retail growing up and dealing with people down right sucks. I'm glad I can ao easily bring a smile to someone's face. When I get rude or incompetent service relative to the price point, I ask to speak to the manager, which I think is a better way to handle things.
- EC1 12y ago
  I guess my struggle is internal then. I feel crappy about myself for being weak for tipping because I feel like I'm being scammed out of my own money via guilt given to me by their employer. And then I feel crappy if I don't tip.
  - acjohnson55 12y ago
    You should feel crappy if you don't tip. It's an "honor system" but the wages assume that people tip servers. I know, it's absurd, but that's the system. If you don't want to tip, please don't eat at places where waitstaff are paid a wage that presumes tips.
    - thezilch 12y ago
      And what places are those? And how much?
      - acjohnson55 12y ago
        I honestly don't know, and so I tip 18-20% everywhere, if I order a sit down meal. I order for pickup if I'm trying to eat out and save money.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        > And what places are those? What places don't assume that waitstaff are tipped? Fast food restaurants and in-grocery-store ready-to-eat food-service areas. And places that explicitly advertise prices with "service included" (though these are rare.)
maxerickson 12y ago
If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious. It's not complicated, tips in that situation aren't extra, they are part of the compensation of the entire staff of the restaurant (the waiters usually tip the bussers and the kitchen...). If you don't like the arrangement, you should refrain from eating in such places.
- rahimnathwani 12y ago
  > It's not complicated It _is_ complicated. It's so complicated that (i) there are discussions on the internet about whether 15% or 20% or 25% is fair, and (ii) there are many specialised 'tip calculator' apps. When I walk into a restaurant, how much should I be expecting to pay for 'meets expectation' service? Is this a % of the bill, or a $ amount related to the amount of time I'm being served (a proxy for the amount of service I get)? Whatever your answer, are you confident that most other patrons of said restaurant would agree with your recommendation?
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    I didn't say tipping was a great system, I said that you shouldn't eat at sit down restaurants in the US if you have a problem with it. I guess if you want external validation of what is fair you can make it complicated, but I was trying to focus on tips not being extra compensation in that specific situation.
    - rahimnathwani 12y ago
      > I said that you shouldn't eat at sit down restaurants in the US if you have a problem with it. I expressed no opinion on this point. > I guess if you want external validation of what is fair you can make it complicated Even if I don't want external validation of what is fair, it is still complicated enough that I need to pull out a calculator after a date with my wife. > I was trying to focus on tips not being extra compensation in that specific situation. Agreed, and this is the reason I tip according to local norms when I'm in the US.
  - 12y ago
frandroid 12y ago
Because you would not eat there if the employer paid decent wages and passed it on to you by charging 30% more than the "tipping" restaurant next door. The only way to get around this is to mandate higher minimum wages for hospitality workers, putting every restaurant on a level playing field. This is what they do in Australia and many European countries.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- innguest 12y ago
  Why must their new mandated wages be higher than the minimum wage? We already have the minimum wage, and I assume that's what it's for? Are hospitality workers better than other minimum wage workers?

by EC1 12y ago

crmd 12y ago

The theory is to incentivize awesome service by having each customer decide how much compensation to give based on the server's performance. Those who delight customers make more money, while whose who are bad at customer service make little money and are incentivized to leave the industry and do something not customer-facing.

ENGNR 12y ago
How hard is it to bring someone a menu and then bring them the food they ask for? I don't want to be delighted by the service, I'm there for the food and people I'm there with.
- jmccree 12y ago
  Have you ever worked at popular sit down restaurant during a dinner rush? It's a mad house... Not easy at all. Good service is knowing the menu and wine/drink list. Being able to provide recommendations and advice on what to order. Trying to write down all the orders at this table while you see an empty water glass and someone is taking 5 minutes to decide which salad to order and you know there's food for another table getting cold in the window. If you just want food and a place to sit, there's plenty of fast food/fast casual restaurants. If you go to a place with wait staff, it's because you are going to get waited on. A good wait person can be the difference in having a wonderful night or a horrible one.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
    Waitstaff are critical, and should be trained. Good waitstaff are a joy (prompt, pleasant, know the menu and can make suggestions, preemptively help avoid problems, revisit but don't keep badgering you). However there's no night I don't cook that is 'horrible'. Its can be frustrating or amusing depending on my attitude. But if I'm sitting down and getting fed, then the rest is gravy.

js2 12y ago

I tip folks in the service industry whenever I have a chance, not just wait staff. I'll tip mechanics, my postal delivery person, the guy who delivers firewood, the hotel maid, etc. The way I see it, it's a very small percentage of my income to someone doing a job I'm glad I don't have to do. I worked retail growing up and dealing with people down right sucks. I'm glad I can ao easily bring a smile to someone's face. When I get rude or incompetent service relative to the price point, I ask to speak to the manager, which I think is a better way to handle things.

EC1 12y ago
I guess my struggle is internal then. I feel crappy about myself for being weak for tipping because I feel like I'm being scammed out of my own money via guilt given to me by their employer. And then I feel crappy if I don't tip.
- acjohnson55 12y ago
  You should feel crappy if you don't tip. It's an "honor system" but the wages assume that people tip servers. I know, it's absurd, but that's the system. If you don't want to tip, please don't eat at places where waitstaff are paid a wage that presumes tips.
  - thezilch 12y ago
    And what places are those? And how much?
    - acjohnson55 12y ago
      I honestly don't know, and so I tip 18-20% everywhere, if I order a sit down meal. I order for pickup if I'm trying to eat out and save money.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > And what places are those? What places don't assume that waitstaff are tipped? Fast food restaurants and in-grocery-store ready-to-eat food-service areas. And places that explicitly advertise prices with "service included" (though these are rare.)

maxerickson 12y ago

If you walk into a sit down restaurant in the US with a plan not to tip, you are being pretty obnoxious. It's not complicated, tips in that situation aren't extra, they are part of the compensation of the entire staff of the restaurant (the waiters usually tip the bussers and the kitchen...). If you don't like the arrangement, you should refrain from eating in such places.

rahimnathwani 12y ago
> It's not complicated It _is_ complicated. It's so complicated that (i) there are discussions on the internet about whether 15% or 20% or 25% is fair, and (ii) there are many specialised 'tip calculator' apps. When I walk into a restaurant, how much should I be expecting to pay for 'meets expectation' service? Is this a % of the bill, or a $ amount related to the amount of time I'm being served (a proxy for the amount of service I get)? Whatever your answer, are you confident that most other patrons of said restaurant would agree with your recommendation?
- maxerickson 12y ago
  I didn't say tipping was a great system, I said that you shouldn't eat at sit down restaurants in the US if you have a problem with it. I guess if you want external validation of what is fair you can make it complicated, but I was trying to focus on tips not being extra compensation in that specific situation.
  - rahimnathwani 12y ago
    > I said that you shouldn't eat at sit down restaurants in the US if you have a problem with it. I expressed no opinion on this point. > I guess if you want external validation of what is fair you can make it complicated Even if I don't want external validation of what is fair, it is still complicated enough that I need to pull out a calculator after a date with my wife. > I was trying to focus on tips not being extra compensation in that specific situation. Agreed, and this is the reason I tip according to local norms when I'm in the US.
- 12y ago

frandroid 12y ago

Because you would not eat there if the employer paid decent wages and passed it on to you by charging 30% more than the "tipping" restaurant next door. The only way to get around this is to mandate higher minimum wages for hospitality workers, putting every restaurant on a level playing field. This is what they do in Australia and many European countries.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
innguest 12y ago
Why must their new mandated wages be higher than the minimum wage? We already have the minimum wage, and I assume that's what it's for? Are hospitality workers better than other minimum wage workers?