4 ms·

Waiters in the US make an average of $4.63 and median of $4.00 per hour [1] from their employer in wages. They make the rest of their income in tips. If you don

Waiters in the US make an average of $4.63 and median of $4.00 per hour [1] from their employer in wages. They make the rest of their income in tips. If you don't tip, you're potentially taking a not insignificant chunk out of their pay for the day. In the US, it takes fairly extreme circumstances to not tip (by most people's standards at least; some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group), like if the service was extremely bad or the waiter was insulting or hostile. Employers are legally required to chip in if the employee doesn't make minimum wage for a pay period, so it's not completely insane, but it's still a rather weird system. [1] http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter%2FWaitress/Hourly_Rate http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Waiter%2FWaitress/Ho...

jonesdc 12y ago
At first I thought your comment may have been flawed but you clearly recognized that the restaurant owner must cover the pay difference. How is the average/median less than the federally mandated minimum wage law? Could the waiters themselves be under reporting tips?
- meowface 12y ago
  The average isn't counting tips. Sorry if my post was misleading in that regard. It's very possible a waiter could be making $4.00 in wage per hour but average out to something like $18/hour when you account for tips, and I think this is pretty common in mid-tier restaurants and up. (My numbers may be way off for that; I've never worked in a service industry.) Waiters serving establishments in wealthier areas can potentially make a lot of money from tips.
madeofpalk 12y ago
Yeah I mean I understand all of that, I just think it's crazy. As a consumer. Vox said it well with "consumers should not be responsible for paying the incomes of a restaurant owner's employees". I find it hilarious how much intelligent and smart people rationalise the US tipping culture. It's always justified as you need to tip because the staff are paid low because they make it up in tips. It's circular reasoning.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  Consumers pay 100% of the incomes of a restaurant's employees.
  - madeofpalk 12y ago
    Well not directly. Why, as a consumer, am I making a decision on how much the staff will earn that day. That's the employer's responsibility. Why doesn't the restaurant owner set the price of what they sell accordingly to cover all costs (incl. wages)? In Australia, the price I see on the menu is the price I'm charged and the price I pay. That includes wages!
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
      - megablast 12y ago
        So every job where you deal with people should resort to this method of payment? Sure, that is a great idea. I look forward to tipping my supermarket clerk, the post office guy, the delivery guy, the bus driver. Japan has the right idea.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        SilasX 12y ago
        We're going that direction, sadly. I'm now being hounded for tips at more fast food and convience stores. Maria Shriver now has a compaign to guilt people into tipping hotel maids (more?).
      - madeofpalk 12y ago
        IMHO, one of the employers responsibility is to pay their staff. I don't think that's really arbitrary, it's commonly accepted across the world. If you're in the service industry, it's your job to be nice. That's what their employer (hopefully) pays them for. If I have a good or bad experience, I exercise my discretion by choosing whether to go there again. If the employer notices a trend downwards in customers, it's their responsibility to assess what that is - hopefully their in touch enough with their business to identify if it's because of their employees service and 'apply pressure' if need be. I guess ultimately it comes down to culture. I (and the large majority of the non-US world) isn't accustom to paying 10%+ extra for bad and rude service and it would be very hard for us to understand why that happens.
madeofpalk 12y ago
> Employers are legally required to chip in if the employee doesn't make minimum wage for a pay period, My own (very uninformed) assumption is that employers would be reluctant to make up the difference and employees would hesitate following this up in fear of getting in their employers 'bad books'
mod 12y ago
>> some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group In my experience, they're not tiny. I'm a young male who owned and worked in my own bar in a poor area of the bible belt, so there's those caveats--but I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. My service was in all likelihood better than hers--at the time, we had fewer customers and therefore I was literally able to do more. Further, I'm well-liked by my customer base, and by my own measure I was an excellent bartender. Anyway, I had a very large amount of customers who did not tip. I'd say > 30%.
- otoburb 12y ago
  >>My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. Were you able to figure out why?
  - mod 12y ago
    I just posted more about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8844833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8844833 But no, just speculation.
- acjohnson55 12y ago
  I speculate that people are less likely to tip barstaff than waitstaff, but I don't have any sources to back that up.
  - mod 12y ago
    In the anecdata of my family & friends who have done both, they have come to expect a higher percentage on bar tabs (~20%) than on restaurant tabs (~15%). There's a ton of factors to consider, of course. Some people get angry when drunk, some get loose with their money, some try to impress. Some people are surprised by large bar tabs and feel cheated. And all the normal factors, like that certain groups are notoriously tight with their money.
- lotharbot 12y ago
  > "I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%." Can you clarify the circumstances here, namely: - does she work in your bar? If not, how similar is the place she works (same city? Same type of neighborhood? Same type of services?) - did you work the same hours / days / crowd demographic? (There may be a difference in tipping expectations on Wednesday mid-afternoon when people are getting a single drink after work, vs Friday night when they're getting multiple drinks and food and trying to impress their date.) - were there significant changes in the surrounding area, such as a factory opening or closing, that changed customer demographics? - are there other wait staff you can compare to that would show a pattern? For example, are women in your establishment generally better tipped than men?

jonesdc 12y ago

At first I thought your comment may have been flawed but you clearly recognized that the restaurant owner must cover the pay difference. How is the average/median less than the federally mandated minimum wage law? Could the waiters themselves be under reporting tips?

meowface 12y ago
The average isn't counting tips. Sorry if my post was misleading in that regard. It's very possible a waiter could be making $4.00 in wage per hour but average out to something like $18/hour when you account for tips, and I think this is pretty common in mid-tier restaurants and up. (My numbers may be way off for that; I've never worked in a service industry.) Waiters serving establishments in wealthier areas can potentially make a lot of money from tips.

madeofpalk 12y ago

Yeah I mean I understand all of that, I just think it's crazy. As a consumer. Vox said it well with "consumers should not be responsible for paying the incomes of a restaurant owner's employees". I find it hilarious how much intelligent and smart people rationalise the US tipping culture. It's always justified as you need to tip because the staff are paid low because they make it up in tips. It's circular reasoning.

waterlesscloud 12y ago
Consumers pay 100% of the incomes of a restaurant's employees.
- madeofpalk 12y ago
  Well not directly. Why, as a consumer, am I making a decision on how much the staff will earn that day. That's the employer's responsibility. Why doesn't the restaurant owner set the price of what they sell accordingly to cover all costs (incl. wages)? In Australia, the price I see on the menu is the price I'm charged and the price I pay. That includes wages!
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
    - megablast 12y ago
      So every job where you deal with people should resort to this method of payment? Sure, that is a great idea. I look forward to tipping my supermarket clerk, the post office guy, the delivery guy, the bus driver. Japan has the right idea.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - SilasX 12y ago
        We're going that direction, sadly. I'm now being hounded for tips at more fast food and convience stores. Maria Shriver now has a compaign to guilt people into tipping hotel maids (more?).
    - madeofpalk 12y ago
      IMHO, one of the employers responsibility is to pay their staff. I don't think that's really arbitrary, it's commonly accepted across the world. If you're in the service industry, it's your job to be nice. That's what their employer (hopefully) pays them for. If I have a good or bad experience, I exercise my discretion by choosing whether to go there again. If the employer notices a trend downwards in customers, it's their responsibility to assess what that is - hopefully their in touch enough with their business to identify if it's because of their employees service and 'apply pressure' if need be. I guess ultimately it comes down to culture. I (and the large majority of the non-US world) isn't accustom to paying 10%+ extra for bad and rude service and it would be very hard for us to understand why that happens.

madeofpalk 12y ago

> Employers are legally required to chip in if the employee doesn't make minimum wage for a pay period, My own (very uninformed) assumption is that employers would be reluctant to make up the difference and employees would hesitate following this up in fear of getting in their employers 'bad books'

mod 12y ago

>> some people just never tip, but they're a tiny group In my experience, they're not tiny. I'm a young male who owned and worked in my own bar in a poor area of the bible belt, so there's those caveats--but I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. My service was in all likelihood better than hers--at the time, we had fewer customers and therefore I was literally able to do more. Further, I'm well-liked by my customer base, and by my own measure I was an excellent bartender. Anyway, I had a very large amount of customers who did not tip. I'd say > 30%.

otoburb 12y ago
>>My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%. Were you able to figure out why?
- mod 12y ago
  I just posted more about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8844833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8844833 But no, just speculation.
acjohnson55 12y ago
I speculate that people are less likely to tip barstaff than waitstaff, but I don't have any sources to back that up.
- mod 12y ago
  In the anecdata of my family & friends who have done both, they have come to expect a higher percentage on bar tabs (~20%) than on restaurant tabs (~15%). There's a ton of factors to consider, of course. Some people get angry when drunk, some get loose with their money, some try to impress. Some people are surprised by large bar tabs and feel cheated. And all the normal factors, like that certain groups are notoriously tight with their money.
lotharbot 12y ago
> "I averaged about 8% in tips over 2.5 years. My niece, on the other hand, averages over 20%." Can you clarify the circumstances here, namely: - does she work in your bar? If not, how similar is the place she works (same city? Same type of neighborhood? Same type of services?) - did you work the same hours / days / crowd demographic? (There may be a difference in tipping expectations on Wednesday mid-afternoon when people are getting a single drink after work, vs Friday night when they're getting multiple drinks and food and trying to impress their date.) - were there significant changes in the surrounding area, such as a factory opening or closing, that changed customer demographics? - are there other wait staff you can compare to that would show a pattern? For example, are women in your establishment generally better tipped than men?