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We could try to draw parallels to physical law. Hacking = breaking and entering Sitting down at someone's logged-in computer = unlawful entry (not forceful en

We could try to draw parallels to physical law. Hacking = breaking and entering Sitting down at someone's logged-in computer = unlawful entry (not forceful entry)

eli 12y ago
Sitting at someone else's terminal makes it sound like a crime of opportunity, but why is stealing a password through spearphishing different from bypassing a poorly coded authentication token?
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  Is that what he did? There is obviously a very large spectrum of how you could obtain a password, of varying degrees of "ethical". I have to ask you to be specific which you want to talk about.
  - eli 12y ago
    User brador made a blanket statement that one was worse than the other. I agree with you: it's impossible to discuss without specifics.
DanBC 12y ago
The difference to the victim between unlawful entry and B&E is the amount of work needed to make the property secure afterwards. In theory a sysadmin could claim hours of work after someone sat down at a logged-in computer or someone "hacked" entry. That admin might want to check for privalidge escalation an back doors. (I think this indictment is bullshit and I hope he is found not guilty or has a token punishment. A federal convictions seems weirdly harsh. Cruel and unusual -especially with the subsequent consequences- for the crime.)
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  I thought B&E was a bigger crime because of the intentional use of force? Demonstrating a greater criminal intent, or something like that. Popping a window lock with a credit card causes no damage, but it's still B&E. Also think the indictment is bullshit.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    Actually, you're both wrong. The real significant legal distinction is usually between criminal trespass and burglary (also known as "breaking and entering"), where the latter involves entry with intent to commit some other crime beyond illegal presence. At common law, the "breaking" of the "breaking and entering" element of burglary does not require actual use of force or damage to a physical object.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    If I recall right, the "breaking" part can be interpreted as broadly as pushing open a closed (but unlocked) door. That's the letter of the law, but I sincerely doubt that was the spirit..
    - SixSigma 12y ago
      In UK law, simply opening an unlocked door and going inside is not a crime. You can come home to me sat on your sofa and all you can do is ask me to leave by the nearest exit (though if I refuse, you can use reasonable force to remove me).

We could try to draw parallels to physical law. Hacking = breaking and entering Sitting down at someone's logged-in computer = unlawful entry (not forceful entry)

eli 12y ago

Sitting at someone else's terminal makes it sound like a crime of opportunity, but why is stealing a password through spearphishing different from bypassing a poorly coded authentication token?

sliverstorm 12y ago
Is that what he did? There is obviously a very large spectrum of how you could obtain a password, of varying degrees of "ethical". I have to ask you to be specific which you want to talk about.
- eli 12y ago
  User brador made a blanket statement that one was worse than the other. I agree with you: it's impossible to discuss without specifics.

DanBC 12y ago

The difference to the victim between unlawful entry and B&E is the amount of work needed to make the property secure afterwards. In theory a sysadmin could claim hours of work after someone sat down at a logged-in computer or someone "hacked" entry. That admin might want to check for privalidge escalation an back doors. (I think this indictment is bullshit and I hope he is found not guilty or has a token punishment. A federal convictions seems weirdly harsh. Cruel and unusual -especially with the subsequent consequences- for the crime.)

sliverstorm 12y ago
I thought B&E was a bigger crime because of the intentional use of force? Demonstrating a greater criminal intent, or something like that. Popping a window lock with a credit card causes no damage, but it's still B&E. Also think the indictment is bullshit.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  Actually, you're both wrong. The real significant legal distinction is usually between criminal trespass and burglary (also known as "breaking and entering"), where the latter involves entry with intent to commit some other crime beyond illegal presence. At common law, the "breaking" of the "breaking and entering" element of burglary does not require actual use of force or damage to a physical object.
- Karunamon 12y ago
  If I recall right, the "breaking" part can be interpreted as broadly as pushing open a closed (but unlocked) door. That's the letter of the law, but I sincerely doubt that was the spirit..
  - SixSigma 12y ago
    In UK law, simply opening an unlocked door and going inside is not a crime. You can come home to me sat on your sofa and all you can do is ask me to leave by the nearest exit (though if I refuse, you can use reasonable force to remove me).