4 ms·

Did he simply log in with another users password he guessed/found/user failed to log out or did he hack the server? In my opinion, a) is not a serious crime, b

by brador 12y ago

Did he simply log in with another users password he guessed/found/user failed to log out or did he hack the server? In my opinion, a) is not a serious crime, b) is.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
eli 12y ago
Why is hacking a server worse than stealing a password?
- brador 12y ago
  Then it becomes premeditated and with intent.
  - iamcreasy 12y ago
    Why abusing the other user space can't be premeditated?
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  We could try to draw parallels to physical law. Hacking = breaking and entering Sitting down at someone's logged-in computer = unlawful entry (not forceful entry)
  - eli 12y ago
    Sitting at someone else's terminal makes it sound like a crime of opportunity, but why is stealing a password through spearphishing different from bypassing a poorly coded authentication token?
    - sliverstorm 12y ago
      Is that what he did? There is obviously a very large spectrum of how you could obtain a password, of varying degrees of "ethical". I have to ask you to be specific which you want to talk about.
      - eli 12y ago
        User brador made a blanket statement that one was worse than the other. I agree with you: it's impossible to discuss without specifics.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    The difference to the victim between unlawful entry and B&E is the amount of work needed to make the property secure afterwards. In theory a sysadmin could claim hours of work after someone sat down at a logged-in computer or someone "hacked" entry. That admin might want to check for privalidge escalation an back doors. (I think this indictment is bullshit and I hope he is found not guilty or has a token punishment. A federal convictions seems weirdly harsh. Cruel and unusual -especially with the subsequent consequences- for the crime.)
    - sliverstorm 12y ago
      I thought B&E was a bigger crime because of the intentional use of force? Demonstrating a greater criminal intent, or something like that. Popping a window lock with a credit card causes no damage, but it's still B&E. Also think the indictment is bullshit.
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        Actually, you're both wrong. The real significant legal distinction is usually between criminal trespass and burglary (also known as "breaking and entering"), where the latter involves entry with intent to commit some other crime beyond illegal presence. At common law, the "breaking" of the "breaking and entering" element of burglary does not require actual use of force or damage to a physical object.
      - Karunamon 12y ago
        If I recall right, the "breaking" part can be interpreted as broadly as pushing open a closed (but unlocked) door. That's the letter of the law, but I sincerely doubt that was the spirit..
        SixSigma 12y ago
        In UK law, simply opening an unlocked door and going inside is not a crime. You can come home to me sat on your sofa and all you can do is ask me to leave by the nearest exit (though if I refuse, you can use reasonable force to remove me).
zo1 12y ago
Did the individual enter the house with a spare set of keys he found under the doormat/owner left unlocked, or did he break the door down? In my opinion, a) is not a serious crime, b) is. I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy, but you have to be very careful when making arbitrary lines like you did.
- justinpaulson 12y ago
  Your analogy only makes sense if the perpetrator just went into the house and wrote "Your house just got its ass kicked" on a post-it note. If they stole something or vandalized the house then it makes no sense as an analogy.
washadjeffmad 12y ago
Every time I hear someone talk about hacking, I have to pause and remind myself that most people who use the term really don't know what they mean by it. It's like of like asking if he "nebulously computer crimed" the server, which the police seem to think he did, and most unfortunately is about as specific as the laws on it get.

by brador 12y ago

Did he simply log in with another users password he guessed/found/user failed to log out or did he hack the server? In my opinion, a) is not a serious crime, b) is.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

eli 12y ago

Why is hacking a server worse than stealing a password?

brador 12y ago
Then it becomes premeditated and with intent.
- iamcreasy 12y ago
  Why abusing the other user space can't be premeditated?
sliverstorm 12y ago
We could try to draw parallels to physical law. Hacking = breaking and entering Sitting down at someone's logged-in computer = unlawful entry (not forceful entry)
- eli 12y ago
  Sitting at someone else's terminal makes it sound like a crime of opportunity, but why is stealing a password through spearphishing different from bypassing a poorly coded authentication token?
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    Is that what he did? There is obviously a very large spectrum of how you could obtain a password, of varying degrees of "ethical". I have to ask you to be specific which you want to talk about.
    - eli 12y ago
      User brador made a blanket statement that one was worse than the other. I agree with you: it's impossible to discuss without specifics.
- DanBC 12y ago
  The difference to the victim between unlawful entry and B&E is the amount of work needed to make the property secure afterwards. In theory a sysadmin could claim hours of work after someone sat down at a logged-in computer or someone "hacked" entry. That admin might want to check for privalidge escalation an back doors. (I think this indictment is bullshit and I hope he is found not guilty or has a token punishment. A federal convictions seems weirdly harsh. Cruel and unusual -especially with the subsequent consequences- for the crime.)
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    I thought B&E was a bigger crime because of the intentional use of force? Demonstrating a greater criminal intent, or something like that. Popping a window lock with a credit card causes no damage, but it's still B&E. Also think the indictment is bullshit.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      Actually, you're both wrong. The real significant legal distinction is usually between criminal trespass and burglary (also known as "breaking and entering"), where the latter involves entry with intent to commit some other crime beyond illegal presence. At common law, the "breaking" of the "breaking and entering" element of burglary does not require actual use of force or damage to a physical object.
    - Karunamon 12y ago
      If I recall right, the "breaking" part can be interpreted as broadly as pushing open a closed (but unlocked) door. That's the letter of the law, but I sincerely doubt that was the spirit..
      - SixSigma 12y ago
        In UK law, simply opening an unlocked door and going inside is not a crime. You can come home to me sat on your sofa and all you can do is ask me to leave by the nearest exit (though if I refuse, you can use reasonable force to remove me).

zo1 12y ago

Did the individual enter the house with a spare set of keys he found under the doormat/owner left unlocked, or did he break the door down? In my opinion, a) is not a serious crime, b) is. I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy, but you have to be very careful when making arbitrary lines like you did.

justinpaulson 12y ago
Your analogy only makes sense if the perpetrator just went into the house and wrote "Your house just got its ass kicked" on a post-it note. If they stole something or vandalized the house then it makes no sense as an analogy.

washadjeffmad 12y ago

Every time I hear someone talk about hacking, I have to pause and remind myself that most people who use the term really don't know what they mean by it. It's like of like asking if he "nebulously computer crimed" the server, which the police seem to think he did, and most unfortunately is about as specific as the laws on it get.