6 ms·

Identifiable Images of Bystanders Extracted from Corneal Reflections (2013)

187 points by officialjunk 12y ago

Brajeshwar 12y ago
I hope I can tuck in this video as a gentle reminder of what we wishes we can do. Now that we are pretty much there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk
hobbes78 12y ago
As expected, mainstream media reports this as: 'Zoom and enhance': A much-mocked CSI trope becomes reality http://theweek.com/article/index/254848/zoom-and-enhance-a-much-mocked-csi-trope-becomes-reality http://theweek.com/article/index/254848/zoom-and-enhance-a-m...
- dmix 12y ago
  As annoying as that is I'm still comforted by the reminder of the (plausible) Blade Runner scene and the thought of how much I like that film - and it's never ending relevancy.
  - pwr22 12y ago
    Doesn't Deckard actually shift the angle the picture is taken from.....
    - buro9 12y ago
      A light field camera.
    - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
      I still don't know what happens in that scene, which is strange for a movie with such heavy handed exposition; even the version without narration. GET IT - SHES A REPLICANT! SO IS HE AND HER AND HIM! OH THE OWL IS FAKE. DID I MENTION THE OWL YET? ITS FAKE! Yet a weird 6 minute sequence with a photo editor just goes unexplained. He magically sees something we don't using technology that isn't remotely explained.
      - AgentIcarus 12y ago
        I always thought the point was that he spots a ... tattoo? Of a snake? That reminds him of the club? Or the dancer... I'm going to have to watch it again aren't I?
        dmix 12y ago
        Yes in the 3 minute scene there were multiple indications from the picture to indicate: Chinatown (food/texts), the girls outfit (being a dancer), and an identifying tattoo. Which would point to only a few dance clubs in the city. It was also a connection to the artificial snake scale being found in the bath tub that happened to be rare and only created by a few possible engineers. Engineers who work on robotics. One Chinatown engineer happened to be employed by the people he was looking for, who were robots in need of an engineer... Not a far fetched connection by Hollywood's standards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHepKd38pr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHepKd38pr0
        drzaiusapelord 12y ago
        I get the point, but its not obvious how he sees things in that photo by what looks like, looking behind a door or around a corner. I guess he does some kind of perspective shift that shouldn't be possible with a plain-jane 2D photo. Maybe the idea is that futuristic cameras capture multiple angles and his tool allows him to see it?
    - wishinghand 12y ago
      I had always thought it was some sort of technology that could figure out what was there due to how the light reflecting off that object reflected off the visible objects on the scanned image.
- awch 12y ago
  Obligatory "let's enhance" video - http://youtu.be/Vxq9yj2pVWk http://youtu.be/Vxq9yj2pVWk.
  - ahonhn 12y ago
    Red Dwarf also has an amusing take on it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp77AjBdlEc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp77AjBdlEc
gknoy 12y ago
"... from approximately 1 m using a ... 39 megapixel digital camera ... with 120 mm macro lens" Good news: At least we can still trust that normaly surveillance cameras won't have the kind of resolution to perform this feat.
- Carrok 12y ago
  They don't need to, they just have another camera from the other angle.
- MingVen 12y ago
  'Forza Silicon introduces 100MP+ (~18k resolution) for US surveillance' http://www.forzasilicon.com/2014/01/high-resolution-camera-for-traffic-surveillance-at-intersection-control/ http://www.forzasilicon.com/2014/01/high-resolution-camera-f... http://www.studiodaily.com/2014/04/so-you-think-4k-and-8k-look-good-behold-this-18k-camera-platform/ http://www.studiodaily.com/2014/04/so-you-think-4k-and-8k-lo... "[...] Forza Silicon, which is introducing a new customizable video-camera platform that can reach "resolutions approaching 200 megapixels" at 60fps"
- boxey 12y ago
  ... with 2x Bowens DX1000 1kW flash lamps with dish reflectors to illuminate the bystanders at a distance of 1 meter. That's ridiculous. Why is this even published?
  - gamache 12y ago
    This is a proof-of-concept. Sure, the conditions are ideal, but this is the first time anyone has made this work at all. Of course they're not going to start with a $20 digicam and a dimly-lit room.
  - roel_v 12y ago
    Because if it's possible in lab circumstances today, then it'll probably be possible in less restrictive circumstances in 10 years? There are so many papers published based on very artificial circumstances on stuff that is later developed into usable things...
soupboy 12y ago
For one of the first projects of this type (from 2006) see http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/CAVE/projects/world_eye/ http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/CAVE/projects/world_eye/.
rokhayakebe 12y ago
Tell HN: When submitting scientific research it would be very helpful to consider that some people do not readily understand the abstract and the importance of the findings. A brief description in laymen's terms would be appreciated.
- JetSpiegel 12y ago
  That's what the lamestream media is for. It's like that Red Dwarf episode, but not a parody.
- zxcdw 12y ago
  I don't know why this was downvoted. I find it relevant for submissions like this, that there are people voicing that they'd appreciate ELI5-like summary which I don't think is hard to reason for, nor can I see how it could be a problem if someone provided one.
- Houshalter 12y ago
  Here is a another article about it http://www.kurzweilai.net/reflected-hidden-faces-in-photographs-revealed-in-pupil http://www.kurzweilai.net/reflected-hidden-faces-in-photogra...
JBiserkov 12y ago
Received: June 17, 2013 Accepted: November 2, 2013 Published: December 26, 2013 Not complaining or anything. Just noting when the research was done
- dang 12y ago
  Good catch. We added the year to the title.
jlebrech 12y ago
uncrop
smmnyc 12y ago
Reminds me of the first episode of Twin Peaks where there is reflection of key evidence in the eyes of a character in a video recording...
zan2434 12y ago
I wonder if this concept (corneal reflection photography) can be used for an eye-tracking interface for computers. Can you match the segment of the image of the corneal reflection that is above the pupil with what is on the screen to figure out where/at what the user is looking?
nether 12y ago
it's happening.
mleonhard 12y ago
I wish they provided one of the original source photos.
typedweb 12y ago
Enhance! Sorry, just had to say that. :)
ColinWright 12y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6970772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6970772 <- Discussion Other submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6971753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6971753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6974543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6974543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6981938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6981938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7036296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7036296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7091655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7091655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8826340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8826340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839516 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839516
chrisbennet 12y ago
It's good to understand what "resolution" actually means when considering these types of problems. Suppose you have 2 dots close together. The ability of your camera to "see" (resolve) 2 dots as opposed to a single blob is a function of the sensor and the lens. All the sensor resulution in the world is not going to let you resolve something if the lens has already blurred the image. While sensors have become relatively cheap, optics have not. I think physics alone makes it impossible to have a camera phone lens that resolves anywhere near what these XX megapixel image sensors could theoritically resolve.

187 points by officialjunk 12y ago

I hope I can tuck in this video as a gentle reminder of what we wishes we can do. Now that we are pretty much there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxq9yj2pVWk

hobbes78 12y ago

As expected, mainstream media reports this as: 'Zoom and enhance': A much-mocked CSI trope becomes reality http://theweek.com/article/index/254848/zoom-and-enhance-a-much-mocked-csi-trope-becomes-reality http://theweek.com/article/index/254848/zoom-and-enhance-a-m...

dmix 12y ago
As annoying as that is I'm still comforted by the reminder of the (plausible) Blade Runner scene and the thought of how much I like that film - and it's never ending relevancy.
- pwr22 12y ago
  Doesn't Deckard actually shift the angle the picture is taken from.....
  - buro9 12y ago
    A light field camera.
  - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
    I still don't know what happens in that scene, which is strange for a movie with such heavy handed exposition; even the version without narration. GET IT - SHES A REPLICANT! SO IS HE AND HER AND HIM! OH THE OWL IS FAKE. DID I MENTION THE OWL YET? ITS FAKE! Yet a weird 6 minute sequence with a photo editor just goes unexplained. He magically sees something we don't using technology that isn't remotely explained.
    - AgentIcarus 12y ago
      I always thought the point was that he spots a ... tattoo? Of a snake? That reminds him of the club? Or the dancer... I'm going to have to watch it again aren't I?
      - dmix 12y ago
        Yes in the 3 minute scene there were multiple indications from the picture to indicate: Chinatown (food/texts), the girls outfit (being a dancer), and an identifying tattoo. Which would point to only a few dance clubs in the city. It was also a connection to the artificial snake scale being found in the bath tub that happened to be rare and only created by a few possible engineers. Engineers who work on robotics. One Chinatown engineer happened to be employed by the people he was looking for, who were robots in need of an engineer... Not a far fetched connection by Hollywood's standards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHepKd38pr0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHepKd38pr0
      - drzaiusapelord 12y ago
        I get the point, but its not obvious how he sees things in that photo by what looks like, looking behind a door or around a corner. I guess he does some kind of perspective shift that shouldn't be possible with a plain-jane 2D photo. Maybe the idea is that futuristic cameras capture multiple angles and his tool allows him to see it?
  - wishinghand 12y ago
    I had always thought it was some sort of technology that could figure out what was there due to how the light reflecting off that object reflected off the visible objects on the scanned image.
awch 12y ago
Obligatory "let's enhance" video - http://youtu.be/Vxq9yj2pVWk http://youtu.be/Vxq9yj2pVWk.
- ahonhn 12y ago
  Red Dwarf also has an amusing take on it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp77AjBdlEc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp77AjBdlEc

gknoy 12y ago

"... from approximately 1 m using a ... 39 megapixel digital camera ... with 120 mm macro lens" Good news: At least we can still trust that normaly surveillance cameras won't have the kind of resolution to perform this feat.

Carrok 12y ago
They don't need to, they just have another camera from the other angle.
MingVen 12y ago
'Forza Silicon introduces 100MP+ (~18k resolution) for US surveillance' http://www.forzasilicon.com/2014/01/high-resolution-camera-for-traffic-surveillance-at-intersection-control/ http://www.forzasilicon.com/2014/01/high-resolution-camera-f... http://www.studiodaily.com/2014/04/so-you-think-4k-and-8k-look-good-behold-this-18k-camera-platform/ http://www.studiodaily.com/2014/04/so-you-think-4k-and-8k-lo... "[...] Forza Silicon, which is introducing a new customizable video-camera platform that can reach "resolutions approaching 200 megapixels" at 60fps"
boxey 12y ago
... with 2x Bowens DX1000 1kW flash lamps with dish reflectors to illuminate the bystanders at a distance of 1 meter. That's ridiculous. Why is this even published?
- gamache 12y ago
  This is a proof-of-concept. Sure, the conditions are ideal, but this is the first time anyone has made this work at all. Of course they're not going to start with a $20 digicam and a dimly-lit room.
- roel_v 12y ago
  Because if it's possible in lab circumstances today, then it'll probably be possible in less restrictive circumstances in 10 years? There are so many papers published based on very artificial circumstances on stuff that is later developed into usable things...

soupboy 12y ago

For one of the first projects of this type (from 2006) see http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/CAVE/projects/world_eye/ http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/CAVE/projects/world_eye/.

rokhayakebe 12y ago

Tell HN: When submitting scientific research it would be very helpful to consider that some people do not readily understand the abstract and the importance of the findings. A brief description in laymen's terms would be appreciated.

JetSpiegel 12y ago
That's what the lamestream media is for. It's like that Red Dwarf episode, but not a parody.
zxcdw 12y ago
I don't know why this was downvoted. I find it relevant for submissions like this, that there are people voicing that they'd appreciate ELI5-like summary which I don't think is hard to reason for, nor can I see how it could be a problem if someone provided one.
Houshalter 12y ago
Here is a another article about it http://www.kurzweilai.net/reflected-hidden-faces-in-photographs-revealed-in-pupil http://www.kurzweilai.net/reflected-hidden-faces-in-photogra...

JBiserkov 12y ago

Received: June 17, 2013 Accepted: November 2, 2013 Published: December 26, 2013 Not complaining or anything. Just noting when the research was done

dang 12y ago
Good catch. We added the year to the title.

jlebrech 12y ago

uncrop

smmnyc 12y ago

Reminds me of the first episode of Twin Peaks where there is reflection of key evidence in the eyes of a character in a video recording...

zan2434 12y ago

I wonder if this concept (corneal reflection photography) can be used for an eye-tracking interface for computers. Can you match the segment of the image of the corneal reflection that is above the pupil with what is on the screen to figure out where/at what the user is looking?

nether 12y ago

it's happening.

mleonhard 12y ago

I wish they provided one of the original source photos.

typedweb 12y ago

Enhance! Sorry, just had to say that. :)

ColinWright 12y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6970772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6970772 <- Discussion Other submissions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6971753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6971753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6974543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6974543 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6981938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6981938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7036296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7036296 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7091655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7091655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8826340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8826340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839516 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8839516

chrisbennet 12y ago

It's good to understand what "resolution" actually means when considering these types of problems. Suppose you have 2 dots close together. The ability of your camera to "see" (resolve) 2 dots as opposed to a single blob is a function of the sensor and the lens. All the sensor resulution in the world is not going to let you resolve something if the lens has already blurred the image. While sensors have become relatively cheap, optics have not. I think physics alone makes it impossible to have a camera phone lens that resolves anywhere near what these XX megapixel image sensors could theoritically resolve.