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The real issue here is that GSM, MMS, etc are archaic and hard to code for. The industry's fight against VOIP seems to be the real issue here. Instead of all th

The real issue here is that GSM, MMS, etc are archaic and hard to code for. The industry's fight against VOIP seems to be the real issue here. Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them? I imagine the "shoddy workmanship" has a lot to do with carrier specific settings and vendor specific stuff that is difficult to code for properly. A modern telecom is a shitshow of legacy junk that should be thrown out. Granted, this is kinda happening with some carriers and google voice, but the move to LTE-only with VOIP needs to happen sooner than later. The carriers seem to be fighting this because they, then, can't sell "minutes" and other old fashioned concepts. They would become a dumb internet pipe and they fear what that means from a profit perspective.

deleted 12y ago
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noselasd 12y ago
I'm not sure why you assume a switch to VoIP will help in that regard - in practical terms that means the SIP protocol for the voice (and SMS) signalling. While SIP is going to be the way forward, the specs are really full of ambiguity and not that well though out features. Most commercial vendors of SIP servers include full scripting languages in order for the admins to "normalize" the protocol in order to try to smooth over incompabilities - I can guarantee you that when phones are released in the wild with a SIP stack the telco hasn't tested, things will stop working until they've implemented workarounds for the SIP flavor of the day.
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  SIP is software. What runs on my cellular modem and its stack is firmware written by yet another party. If SIP app #474 is screwing up, I switch to SIP app #475. This all can be done in userland as an application. Changing out my GSM stack? Yeah, I can't do that.
  - noselasd 12y ago
    Well, with VoLTE currently being implemented in networks and phones, that SIP stack used to realize VoLTE on the phone can pretty much be considered firmware too. However, you might fiddle around with various other SIP clients and find one that works for you. The other hundreds of millions of mobile phone users are not going to do that - so the problem will persist.
ansible 12y ago
Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them? They had a chance to do that with LTE. But the entrenched players decided instead to greatly increase the size of the specification (and the over-the-air protocol) to specially support voice (VoLTE). Granted, handoffs from 2G to 3G to 4G are quite complicated, and then throw in roaming on top of that and it gets really complicated. However, if I had a magic wand or time travel device, I'd rather have seen LTE be data only (with good quality of service support) and IPv6 only. That would have made the protocol vastly simpler, and then it would be possible to un-bundle voice altogether... eventually. I don't know that such a design would be in the carrier's best interests though, so who's to say it could ever have happened, even with magic.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

noselasd 12y ago

I'm not sure why you assume a switch to VoIP will help in that regard - in practical terms that means the SIP protocol for the voice (and SMS) signalling. While SIP is going to be the way forward, the specs are really full of ambiguity and not that well though out features. Most commercial vendors of SIP servers include full scripting languages in order for the admins to "normalize" the protocol in order to try to smooth over incompabilities - I can guarantee you that when phones are released in the wild with a SIP stack the telco hasn't tested, things will stop working until they've implemented workarounds for the SIP flavor of the day.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
SIP is software. What runs on my cellular modem and its stack is firmware written by yet another party. If SIP app #474 is screwing up, I switch to SIP app #475. This all can be done in userland as an application. Changing out my GSM stack? Yeah, I can't do that.
- noselasd 12y ago
  Well, with VoLTE currently being implemented in networks and phones, that SIP stack used to realize VoLTE on the phone can pretty much be considered firmware too. However, you might fiddle around with various other SIP clients and find one that works for you. The other hundreds of millions of mobile phone users are not going to do that - so the problem will persist.

ansible 12y ago

Instead of all this complexity, why not just treat phones as data devices and voice is just another IP protocol that runs on them? They had a chance to do that with LTE. But the entrenched players decided instead to greatly increase the size of the specification (and the over-the-air protocol) to specially support voice (VoLTE). Granted, handoffs from 2G to 3G to 4G are quite complicated, and then throw in roaming on top of that and it gets really complicated. However, if I had a magic wand or time travel device, I'd rather have seen LTE be data only (with good quality of service support) and IPv6 only. That would have made the protocol vastly simpler, and then it would be possible to un-bundle voice altogether... eventually. I don't know that such a design would be in the carrier's best interests though, so who's to say it could ever have happened, even with magic.