4 ms·

I like to advocate against using placeholder texts most of the time. The problem is often that designers/developers have to create a page with some content on i

I like to advocate against using placeholder texts most of the time. The problem is often that designers/developers have to create a page with some content on it, but they don't know the content yet. They know a bit what it's about but the real texts on the page are not ready yet. Then they use Lorem Ipsum or something else. This is wrong from the start. Before designing a page, you should know what the content is gonna be. The content should then decide what the design is gonna look like. Essentially, content is part of the design. Designs that used placeholder texts like Lorum Ipsum can also fail, because the real texts turn out to be much shorter/longer than the placeholder text. Or the text is really something else than the designer/developer expected. Or the designer placed some cool text box somewhere but nobody has an idea what kind of content they should put there. This often results in useless texts appearing on the page because the design demands it. Or the other way around, the product owner wants to add a certain text somewhere, but there's not really a place for that in the design, often resulting in an ugly/quick fix. In the end it is all about the content. The design is to complement the content. So I think generally the best approach is to start with the content, then create a design to complement the content. Of course, in some situations it's not possible, but if you can, start with the content!

post_break 12y ago
Oh man, if only it was a perfect world right? If I had the content I could complete so many of my to-dos. But no, I'm sitting here waiting for the boss to get me the content. I'd love to have the content first, but it's just never going to happen.
- vinspee 12y ago
  This is your own fault. You've made your "boss" believe that you can complete designs without content for so long that he now expects it. You should try re-framing the conversation. Something like: — SCENE: BOSS TYPING FURIOUSLY, YOU KNOCK ON HIS DOOR AND HE INVITES YOU IN. BOSS: "We need this design for our new sprocket page as soon as possible - We're going to market in two weeks and need a landing page for our Google AdWords campaign" YOU: "Awesome! The new sprocket is going to be huge for our company. What would you really like to focus on for this page? I want to make sure to prominently feature the most important things." BOSS: _excitedly lists a dozen things_ YOU: Wow - this thing is really great. It's going to be a huge benefit to our customers. How can we show them the three things they're going to react to instantly? BOSS: "Well my favorite is the gizmosis feature. It makes it so you don't have to flim-flam any more!" YOU: "Woah. That's really cool! I'll make sure that is billed highly. Anything else you can thing of that sticks out in your mind?" BOSS: "That's the only thing that sticks out. I do have this detailed list of features here" YOU: "Please do send that to me - I'll try to make some sense of it. If you think of anything else really important, just email it over to me. I'm going to start putting all of these features into the design tomorrow morning - so make sure you let me know by the end of the day! I can't wait to get this page up for our clients to see - it's going to be a huge win." BOSS: "Excellent. I'll send over any additional thoughts I have with that document right now. Thanks." — END SCENE Framing the conversation is important. Seeing yourself as the boss's advocate is important. You're working toward the same goal. The content is more important than your design. Accept that.
  - post_break 12y ago
    It's my own fault he wants to see what it will look like before signing off on something? Yeah ok. http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif
    - vinspee 12y ago
      Nope. It's just your fault the you've told him "this is what it will look like" before having the content. It's not the truth. EDIT: He's not going to "sign off" on it until the content is in anyway… right?
      - talmand 12y ago
        I'm willing to bet many people have "signed off" on things before there was content. People seem to forget that lorem ipsum is not a new thing, it's been a part of design for decades. It is an accepted practice during design phases of a project, whether digital or print.
  - talmand 12y ago
    You forgot the laugh track indicators.
  - jigg4joe 12y ago
    This assumes that "the boss" is all knowing about all of the content, which in my experience is very rare. However, "I need a mockup by the end of the day" is very common.
- zachrose 12y ago
  One thing that's worked for me is to make up gibberish text that matches the general contours of the eventual content. For example, a "call to action" phrase at the end of marketing copy might look like: "See can good great. Imperative, yes."
  - IgorPartola 12y ago
    The problem with that is that when you are launching the site at the 11th hour, the content editor will overlook this because at first glance it looks like English. Not saying that happens often, but it this makes it a lot easier to happen. I actually like this Blokk thing specifically because it is not text. You can't mistake this for proper content.
vkjv 12y ago
In my experience, when doing user acceptance testing, the user will only ever give a maximum of X comments. If there is copy on the page, especially FPO, most of the comments will be around this copy since this is something that they understand. I am able to get much more valuable feedback when using copy that is obviously not final.
hesselink 12y ago
> that used placeholder texts like Lorum Ipsum can also fail, because the real texts turn out to be much shorter/longer than the placeholder text. In many cases, the content is dynamic, so the design has to be able to handle many different content lengths.
normloman 12y ago
I used to work for a small web agency. Clients would buy websites all the time without having a clue what the content was going to be. Occasionally I'd say "We can't start work until you provide us with content." Most times it was a deal killer: the client wouldn't sign the contract unless they saw the design first. In other cases, the client would promise to find content, but never deliver. I can't tell you how many blank websites we billed out after waiting for months with no content. Because clients dragged their feet on getting us content, most of our sites had to use placeholder texts. The client would delay content until the last minute. Then, as always, we'd get some shitty word document with content that didn't fit into our design. Text was crammed into places it didn't belong. Feature boxes were created for content that didn't exist. A design disaster. But clients loved it. And it got contracts signed. If you're a freelance designer, team up with a good copywriter. 10% of the time, the client will agree to have their site written by a professional, you'll get content on time, and everyone will be happy. The other 90% of the time, the client will try to save money by writing it themselves. They will either write an indecipherable crap-pile, or absolutely nothing. These are the clients that pay your salary. And that's why placeholder text will always exist.
- jdawg77 12y ago
  The only scenario you forgot to outline is when the CEO of the company that hires the small agency writes the content. Sometimes, this can be great - if that CEO is also an author, has years of copywriting experience and say, has sold tens of thousands of books. Usually, that's not the case. Then the CEO hires the design agency, who wisely uses Lorem Ipsum or similar. Then, you might have an internal marketing manager who knows the CEO's copywriting skills suck. The agency also knows this, but, because it's a "Startup CEO," who's got some BS claim to fame, they write it anyway. Screw the people who say the CEO's copy sucks, etc. Do you know how that scenario plays out? The board steps in, if they have any brains, and fire the CEO who can't copywrite but insists on wiping their arse with the whole thing. In this scenario, too, the agency simply takes the money and watches, waits for the internal marketing manager (usually, the guy who hired the agency) to get a new job or get fired. Then, the startup goes down in flames. The best part? The agency still got paid. Sometimes, you can't save a client from driving themselves over a cliff. Take the money, smile, do the right thing and give them the best possible advice. But, don't sit still and do zero whilst the company drives themselves off a cliff. Especially when they pay you all the way down until they combust.

post_break 12y ago

Oh man, if only it was a perfect world right? If I had the content I could complete so many of my to-dos. But no, I'm sitting here waiting for the boss to get me the content. I'd love to have the content first, but it's just never going to happen.

vinspee 12y ago
This is your own fault. You've made your "boss" believe that you can complete designs without content for so long that he now expects it. You should try re-framing the conversation. Something like: — SCENE: BOSS TYPING FURIOUSLY, YOU KNOCK ON HIS DOOR AND HE INVITES YOU IN. BOSS: "We need this design for our new sprocket page as soon as possible - We're going to market in two weeks and need a landing page for our Google AdWords campaign" YOU: "Awesome! The new sprocket is going to be huge for our company. What would you really like to focus on for this page? I want to make sure to prominently feature the most important things." BOSS: _excitedly lists a dozen things_ YOU: Wow - this thing is really great. It's going to be a huge benefit to our customers. How can we show them the three things they're going to react to instantly? BOSS: "Well my favorite is the gizmosis feature. It makes it so you don't have to flim-flam any more!" YOU: "Woah. That's really cool! I'll make sure that is billed highly. Anything else you can thing of that sticks out in your mind?" BOSS: "That's the only thing that sticks out. I do have this detailed list of features here" YOU: "Please do send that to me - I'll try to make some sense of it. If you think of anything else really important, just email it over to me. I'm going to start putting all of these features into the design tomorrow morning - so make sure you let me know by the end of the day! I can't wait to get this page up for our clients to see - it's going to be a huge win." BOSS: "Excellent. I'll send over any additional thoughts I have with that document right now. Thanks." — END SCENE Framing the conversation is important. Seeing yourself as the boss's advocate is important. You're working toward the same goal. The content is more important than your design. Accept that.
- post_break 12y ago
  It's my own fault he wants to see what it will look like before signing off on something? Yeah ok. http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif http://i.imgur.com/seh6p.gif
  - vinspee 12y ago
    Nope. It's just your fault the you've told him "this is what it will look like" before having the content. It's not the truth. EDIT: He's not going to "sign off" on it until the content is in anyway… right?
    - talmand 12y ago
      I'm willing to bet many people have "signed off" on things before there was content. People seem to forget that lorem ipsum is not a new thing, it's been a part of design for decades. It is an accepted practice during design phases of a project, whether digital or print.
- talmand 12y ago
  You forgot the laugh track indicators.
- jigg4joe 12y ago
  This assumes that "the boss" is all knowing about all of the content, which in my experience is very rare. However, "I need a mockup by the end of the day" is very common.
zachrose 12y ago
One thing that's worked for me is to make up gibberish text that matches the general contours of the eventual content. For example, a "call to action" phrase at the end of marketing copy might look like: "See can good great. Imperative, yes."
- IgorPartola 12y ago
  The problem with that is that when you are launching the site at the 11th hour, the content editor will overlook this because at first glance it looks like English. Not saying that happens often, but it this makes it a lot easier to happen. I actually like this Blokk thing specifically because it is not text. You can't mistake this for proper content.

vkjv 12y ago

In my experience, when doing user acceptance testing, the user will only ever give a maximum of X comments. If there is copy on the page, especially FPO, most of the comments will be around this copy since this is something that they understand. I am able to get much more valuable feedback when using copy that is obviously not final.

hesselink 12y ago

> that used placeholder texts like Lorum Ipsum can also fail, because the real texts turn out to be much shorter/longer than the placeholder text. In many cases, the content is dynamic, so the design has to be able to handle many different content lengths.

normloman 12y ago

I used to work for a small web agency. Clients would buy websites all the time without having a clue what the content was going to be. Occasionally I'd say "We can't start work until you provide us with content." Most times it was a deal killer: the client wouldn't sign the contract unless they saw the design first. In other cases, the client would promise to find content, but never deliver. I can't tell you how many blank websites we billed out after waiting for months with no content. Because clients dragged their feet on getting us content, most of our sites had to use placeholder texts. The client would delay content until the last minute. Then, as always, we'd get some shitty word document with content that didn't fit into our design. Text was crammed into places it didn't belong. Feature boxes were created for content that didn't exist. A design disaster. But clients loved it. And it got contracts signed. If you're a freelance designer, team up with a good copywriter. 10% of the time, the client will agree to have their site written by a professional, you'll get content on time, and everyone will be happy. The other 90% of the time, the client will try to save money by writing it themselves. They will either write an indecipherable crap-pile, or absolutely nothing. These are the clients that pay your salary. And that's why placeholder text will always exist.

jdawg77 12y ago
The only scenario you forgot to outline is when the CEO of the company that hires the small agency writes the content. Sometimes, this can be great - if that CEO is also an author, has years of copywriting experience and say, has sold tens of thousands of books. Usually, that's not the case. Then the CEO hires the design agency, who wisely uses Lorem Ipsum or similar. Then, you might have an internal marketing manager who knows the CEO's copywriting skills suck. The agency also knows this, but, because it's a "Startup CEO," who's got some BS claim to fame, they write it anyway. Screw the people who say the CEO's copy sucks, etc. Do you know how that scenario plays out? The board steps in, if they have any brains, and fire the CEO who can't copywrite but insists on wiping their arse with the whole thing. In this scenario, too, the agency simply takes the money and watches, waits for the internal marketing manager (usually, the guy who hired the agency) to get a new job or get fired. Then, the startup goes down in flames. The best part? The agency still got paid. Sometimes, you can't save a client from driving themselves over a cliff. Take the money, smile, do the right thing and give them the best possible advice. But, don't sit still and do zero whilst the company drives themselves off a cliff. Especially when they pay you all the way down until they combust.