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I love your question -- I think about this all the time. Here's my best guess about what we're fucking up today, or put a little differently, what we're doing

I love your question -- I think about this all the time. Here's my best guess about what we're fucking up today, or put a little differently, what we're doing that subsequent generations will look at with horror and disgust: eating animals. I'm a carnivore, but I wouldn't be if I had to confront the meat industry directly. Witnessing the stuff that goes on even in the small/medium-size farms that some of my friends run turns my stomach, to say nothing of the videos of animal torture that wash up on the internet from time to time. And as a cognitive scientist, the knowledge that animals, even 'primitive' ones like rats, unequivocally have emotions makes it worse. I live in dissonance until I can work up the guts/strength of character to go vegetarian. Generally speaking, I think a lot of questions about 'what are we fucking up' can be answered by rising living standards leading to an extension of empathy. The more secure you are in your own personal circumstances, the more you have mental room leftover to give a shit about others. In the not too recent past it was actually an okay thing to attempt to wipe out a civilization because they were inconveniencing you. Nasty stuff still happens, but it's generally behind the scenes. Nobody today thinks it's okay to butcher people just because they don't look like you. Even the most hardcore nutters in the States these days don't want to wipe out Mexicans or enslave black people. "Stay out of my neighborhood and leave my family alone" is about as bad as it gets in terms of position statements, which, considered in light of human history, is an astounding improvement. So barring the cataclysm, I think empathy will continue to be extended, and three generations from now the idea of systematically torturing billions of chickens so we can have cheap buffalo wings will be officially appalling to the majority.

a3n 12y ago
Thanks for that. Interesting idea that security leads to empathy. It makes sense. Three generations from now to majority vegetarian seems a little fast to me. In fact, at all or ever for the majority seems unlikely to me, but I'm not surprised by being surprised anymore. I suppose we could consider the tobacco industry. Although we (the non-smokers in the US) aren't appalled when we encounter a smoker today, a lot of us are surprised. That only took a couple generations, I think. Maybe three. But changing habits for something you don't need for survival (tobacco) is probably a lot easier than changing habits for something that you do need for survival (food, the ultimate addiction). I can't say I look forward to majority vegetarian, but I wouldn't mind it, even for myself (in theory :) My fear would be the horrid industrial food practices now observed in the meat industry transferring over in some way to veggies and fruit, as the companies involved "pivot." By the way, will I be still able to eat insects? I think WRT to emotions, they're basically organic robots, no?
- shanusmagnus 12y ago
  "Three generations from now to majority vegetarian seems a little fast to me." I would have agreed with you until very recently -- I lived in CA when the proposition to legalize gay marriage failed, just a couple of years ago. I figured we'd be waiting twenty years for that one. Similarly, in line with your point, I lived in NYC in the early 2000s when bars were smoker sanctuaries; even after smoking in bars was made illegal everybody was still doing it when I moved. Now it's impossible to imagine smoke in bars, and when I was last in Buenos Aires I couldn't believe people could still tolerate the practice. All of this has increased my sensitivity (or perhaps bias) to 'idea[s] whose time has come.' "By the way, will I be still able to eat insects? I think WRT to emotions, they're basically organic robots, no?" A lot could be said on the topic, but knowing what I know I am totally fine with eating insects. Can't really see that one changing.

a3n 12y ago

Thanks for that. Interesting idea that security leads to empathy. It makes sense. Three generations from now to majority vegetarian seems a little fast to me. In fact, at all or ever for the majority seems unlikely to me, but I'm not surprised by being surprised anymore. I suppose we could consider the tobacco industry. Although we (the non-smokers in the US) aren't appalled when we encounter a smoker today, a lot of us are surprised. That only took a couple generations, I think. Maybe three. But changing habits for something you don't need for survival (tobacco) is probably a lot easier than changing habits for something that you do need for survival (food, the ultimate addiction). I can't say I look forward to majority vegetarian, but I wouldn't mind it, even for myself (in theory :) My fear would be the horrid industrial food practices now observed in the meat industry transferring over in some way to veggies and fruit, as the companies involved "pivot." By the way, will I be still able to eat insects? I think WRT to emotions, they're basically organic robots, no?

shanusmagnus 12y ago
"Three generations from now to majority vegetarian seems a little fast to me." I would have agreed with you until very recently -- I lived in CA when the proposition to legalize gay marriage failed, just a couple of years ago. I figured we'd be waiting twenty years for that one. Similarly, in line with your point, I lived in NYC in the early 2000s when bars were smoker sanctuaries; even after smoking in bars was made illegal everybody was still doing it when I moved. Now it's impossible to imagine smoke in bars, and when I was last in Buenos Aires I couldn't believe people could still tolerate the practice. All of this has increased my sensitivity (or perhaps bias) to 'idea[s] whose time has come.' "By the way, will I be still able to eat insects? I think WRT to emotions, they're basically organic robots, no?" A lot could be said on the topic, but knowing what I know I am totally fine with eating insects. Can't really see that one changing.