4 ms·

Inside the favela too violent for Rio’s armed police

44 points by Thevet 12y ago

vincentbarr 12y ago
The headline is a bit misleading. Less than 6% of favelas are occupied by police. Specifically, only ~40 of the 750+ favelas in Rio were selected to receive 'Pacifying Police Units' (UPPs). The UPP project began in 2008 and - from my conversations with several people living in favelas - was part of a larger effort to improve living conditions, which it has to an extent; some favelas now have basic sewage systems, for example. However, the police presence was seen as ineffective and the project disingenuous in that it was inspired by the desire to make Rio a stronger attraction to tourists during the World Cup rather than by the concern for the welfare of people living in favelas. Additionally, the relationship between law enforcement and residents was also quite crooked. The Guardian reports that "80% of Brazilians are afraid of being tortured by their own police force," but the study was conducted by Amnesty International. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/brazil-favelas-big-trouble-world-cup-marketing-police-abuse-killings-security http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/brazil-... Last, I can't imagine policing in favelas to be an easy job. When I visited a pacified favela, the police unit walls were lined (50+) with large bullet holes.
- Giulalbez 12y ago
  > but the study was conducted by Amnesty International. Why the "but" in that sentence? I would say 99% of people in the favela I grew up are afraid of the police at some degree, and would prefer to meet an armed gangster in a dark alley to meet a group of policeman, for sure! > I can't imagine policing in favelas to be an easy job The police is unequipped, undertrained, underpaid and badly managed. Most of the military policeman are from the lower classes too, therefore lacking a good education since childhood. Is hard. Sometimes they bring the Army with heavy weaponry and occupy the place for a while, but this is not a long-term solution.
  - vincentbarr 12y ago
    I used 'but' to call attention to the group conducting the research as I feel that's important for context and full disclosure when referencing a study. My intention was not to discredit the research or Amnesty International.
theiostream 12y ago
Brazil is a country where the correctional systems runs with 200.000 people over capacity and has had a 100-page UN report condemning practices which deny basic human rights, yet prison riots are treated by media simply as gang plots with no particular reason; Captain Nascimento, the protagonist of the "Elite Squad" films (who methodically kills/tortures drug traffickers) is regarded almost always as a hero instead of an aspect of the police to be criticized. Particularly in the elections that happened last year, proposals to "end impunity" (as lowering the age for being treated as an adult in court) have had largely more electoral effect and have been widely more propagated than projects for improving rehabilitation capability or respecting human rights in prisons. In fact, it's common to hear the maxim "Human rights for right people [and not for criminals]" around here to disqualify proposals of the latter. Thanks to this public opinion trend, stories like those in the article about people who are able to "get out" instead of being arrested or killed are largely ignored. (Seeing them on Hacker News is easier than on the daily newspaper or even than on left-wing blogs which hardly have journalism potential to get a story like this.) It's nice to see them.
- flueedo 12y ago
  There's a propagated distortion regarding the meaning of human rights here in Brazil, it seems to me. There's this idea that human rights is synonym with being soft on crime, not actually punishing wrongdoings, treating criminals better than honest working folk. So, understandably, a lot of people start seeing "human rights" as part of the problem. Crime can be solved in two ways, one of them is through the kind of policies you've mentioned. The other -- which may only work with crime committed or allegedly committed by the poor -- is by widespread oppression and institution of elements of a police state (the drawbacks are many as you can imagine). Brazil currently does not have the infrastructure to follow the former so it seems to be courting the latter; It doesn't seem to be in the best interest of politicians to work towards the better option. Possibly, who knows, because it would be the harder and riskier approach regarding whether it could bring them immediate votes and popularity.
- IndianAstronaut 12y ago
  Elite Squad 2 went more in depth. It went at the underlying corruption that limited economic opportunities for the poor and how it uses the police power to maintain this situation.
blazespin 12y ago
This is the result of automation and AI. These people are economically irrelevant. We need to alter our economy to be entirely based on education and enlightenment.
- lohengramm 12y ago
  I strongly believe that the world economy will inevitably come to such a point in the future. But it is kinda far. People still transfer xml over the wire, you know :).
- diego_moita 12y ago
  This is either empty rhetoric or trolling. Favelas existed long before electronic computers were invented. Actually, in Brazil, a lot of people came out of poverty in the last 20 years, in spite of increases in automation and productivity.
lohengramm 12y ago
Violence in Brazil is an extensive topic. When you live in the country and actually follow the rules it becomes hard to pick a side: pacification by violence or by peace itself? The country has come to such a point where it is hard to believe that it is even possible to solve the problem. It is also notable that Rio is just the marketing side of the country. The violence and misery in the northeast region is even worse, but it is not so much published. Even São Paulo, which is the economic engine of the whole country, has such a contrast between rich and poor, and the "favela culture" is so spread, that it makes me want to leave this place and never come back.
- IndianAstronaut 12y ago
  This seems to be a common middle income nation problem. A country gets somewhat wealthy but huge inequalities exist still and crime is harder to tackle. Mexico is going through it. China and India are on track to becoming violent and crime ridden.
ddorian43 12y ago
... everyone should watch 2 "Elite Squad" movies done on the police that goes inside the favela BOPE (they have skulls as emblems).
- DanBC 12y ago
  The TV series "City of Men" is also very very good. My boxset version had an eye-opening documentary about polici g the favela. http://imdb.com/title/tt0364801/ http://imdb.com/title/tt0364801/
- civilian 12y ago
  Skulls as emblems... yeah, they occur on uniforms throughout history. There's some discussion to be had about whether the good guys would have skulls on their uniforms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImnpErdDzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImnpErdDzA
  - Crito 12y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf#Non-German_military http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf#Non-German_military
  - Giulalbez 12y ago
    At least in Brazil , it doesn't bring a good feeling, because of "Scuderie Detetive Le Cocq"[1] , a secret killing organization formed by policeman, commonly referred as "Death Squads". They kill poor people for fun. Their emblem was a skull. [1] http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderie_Detetive_Le_Cocq http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderie_Detetive_Le_Cocq
- elsurudo 12y ago
  City of God (Cicade de Deus) is a great movie about this, too.
  - icpmacdo 12y ago
    That movie is in my top ten off all time, also on Netflix! Go watch it!
Giulalbez 12y ago
I grew up in a favela of Rio [1] , it is a small one, but, because of its strategical position, fiercely disputed by the 2 major organizations, therefore constantly at war. There is so much going on there, that one could write entire papers about it. More than 90% of the people living there are good struggling working people, suffering not only the harm from the police and the gangs, but also from a mix of social and racial discrimination from the upper classes and from the legal system. There is no fast solution, as the mitigation of poverty is a slow process, and is the only way out. Reform of the Police and legalization of cannabis would help though, but only the elimination of the extreme inequality will bring a definitive change. Brazil is on the way, things have improved a little in those last years. [1] https://www.google.com.br/search?q=morro+da+coroa&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_PWpVN2ZCYSkNpPvgcgG&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1364&bih=591 https://www.google.com.br/search?q=morro+da+coroa&tbm=isch&t...
lohengramm 12y ago
It is almost 3:00 AM here and I woke up with two guys trying to break in my house. Instantly remembered this thread.

44 points by Thevet 12y ago

The headline is a bit misleading. Less than 6% of favelas are occupied by police. Specifically, only ~40 of the 750+ favelas in Rio were selected to receive 'Pacifying Police Units' (UPPs). The UPP project began in 2008 and - from my conversations with several people living in favelas - was part of a larger effort to improve living conditions, which it has to an extent; some favelas now have basic sewage systems, for example. However, the police presence was seen as ineffective and the project disingenuous in that it was inspired by the desire to make Rio a stronger attraction to tourists during the World Cup rather than by the concern for the welfare of people living in favelas. Additionally, the relationship between law enforcement and residents was also quite crooked. The Guardian reports that "80% of Brazilians are afraid of being tortured by their own police force," but the study was conducted by Amnesty International. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/brazil-favelas-big-trouble-world-cup-marketing-police-abuse-killings-security http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/brazil-... Last, I can't imagine policing in favelas to be an easy job. When I visited a pacified favela, the police unit walls were lined (50+) with large bullet holes.

Giulalbez 12y ago
> but the study was conducted by Amnesty International. Why the "but" in that sentence? I would say 99% of people in the favela I grew up are afraid of the police at some degree, and would prefer to meet an armed gangster in a dark alley to meet a group of policeman, for sure! > I can't imagine policing in favelas to be an easy job The police is unequipped, undertrained, underpaid and badly managed. Most of the military policeman are from the lower classes too, therefore lacking a good education since childhood. Is hard. Sometimes they bring the Army with heavy weaponry and occupy the place for a while, but this is not a long-term solution.
- vincentbarr 12y ago
  I used 'but' to call attention to the group conducting the research as I feel that's important for context and full disclosure when referencing a study. My intention was not to discredit the research or Amnesty International.

theiostream 12y ago

Brazil is a country where the correctional systems runs with 200.000 people over capacity and has had a 100-page UN report condemning practices which deny basic human rights, yet prison riots are treated by media simply as gang plots with no particular reason; Captain Nascimento, the protagonist of the "Elite Squad" films (who methodically kills/tortures drug traffickers) is regarded almost always as a hero instead of an aspect of the police to be criticized. Particularly in the elections that happened last year, proposals to "end impunity" (as lowering the age for being treated as an adult in court) have had largely more electoral effect and have been widely more propagated than projects for improving rehabilitation capability or respecting human rights in prisons. In fact, it's common to hear the maxim "Human rights for right people [and not for criminals]" around here to disqualify proposals of the latter. Thanks to this public opinion trend, stories like those in the article about people who are able to "get out" instead of being arrested or killed are largely ignored. (Seeing them on Hacker News is easier than on the daily newspaper or even than on left-wing blogs which hardly have journalism potential to get a story like this.) It's nice to see them.

flueedo 12y ago
There's a propagated distortion regarding the meaning of human rights here in Brazil, it seems to me. There's this idea that human rights is synonym with being soft on crime, not actually punishing wrongdoings, treating criminals better than honest working folk. So, understandably, a lot of people start seeing "human rights" as part of the problem. Crime can be solved in two ways, one of them is through the kind of policies you've mentioned. The other -- which may only work with crime committed or allegedly committed by the poor -- is by widespread oppression and institution of elements of a police state (the drawbacks are many as you can imagine). Brazil currently does not have the infrastructure to follow the former so it seems to be courting the latter; It doesn't seem to be in the best interest of politicians to work towards the better option. Possibly, who knows, because it would be the harder and riskier approach regarding whether it could bring them immediate votes and popularity.
IndianAstronaut 12y ago
Elite Squad 2 went more in depth. It went at the underlying corruption that limited economic opportunities for the poor and how it uses the police power to maintain this situation.

blazespin 12y ago

This is the result of automation and AI. These people are economically irrelevant. We need to alter our economy to be entirely based on education and enlightenment.

lohengramm 12y ago
I strongly believe that the world economy will inevitably come to such a point in the future. But it is kinda far. People still transfer xml over the wire, you know :).
diego_moita 12y ago
This is either empty rhetoric or trolling. Favelas existed long before electronic computers were invented. Actually, in Brazil, a lot of people came out of poverty in the last 20 years, in spite of increases in automation and productivity.

lohengramm 12y ago

Violence in Brazil is an extensive topic. When you live in the country and actually follow the rules it becomes hard to pick a side: pacification by violence or by peace itself? The country has come to such a point where it is hard to believe that it is even possible to solve the problem. It is also notable that Rio is just the marketing side of the country. The violence and misery in the northeast region is even worse, but it is not so much published. Even São Paulo, which is the economic engine of the whole country, has such a contrast between rich and poor, and the "favela culture" is so spread, that it makes me want to leave this place and never come back.

IndianAstronaut 12y ago
This seems to be a common middle income nation problem. A country gets somewhat wealthy but huge inequalities exist still and crime is harder to tackle. Mexico is going through it. China and India are on track to becoming violent and crime ridden.

ddorian43 12y ago

... everyone should watch 2 "Elite Squad" movies done on the police that goes inside the favela BOPE (they have skulls as emblems).

DanBC 12y ago
The TV series "City of Men" is also very very good. My boxset version had an eye-opening documentary about polici g the favela. http://imdb.com/title/tt0364801/ http://imdb.com/title/tt0364801/
civilian 12y ago
Skulls as emblems... yeah, they occur on uniforms throughout history. There's some discussion to be had about whether the good guys would have skulls on their uniforms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImnpErdDzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VImnpErdDzA
- Crito 12y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf#Non-German_military http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf#Non-German_military
- Giulalbez 12y ago
  At least in Brazil , it doesn't bring a good feeling, because of "Scuderie Detetive Le Cocq"[1] , a secret killing organization formed by policeman, commonly referred as "Death Squads". They kill poor people for fun. Their emblem was a skull. [1] http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderie_Detetive_Le_Cocq http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderie_Detetive_Le_Cocq
elsurudo 12y ago
City of God (Cicade de Deus) is a great movie about this, too.
- icpmacdo 12y ago
  That movie is in my top ten off all time, also on Netflix! Go watch it!

Giulalbez 12y ago

I grew up in a favela of Rio [1] , it is a small one, but, because of its strategical position, fiercely disputed by the 2 major organizations, therefore constantly at war. There is so much going on there, that one could write entire papers about it. More than 90% of the people living there are good struggling working people, suffering not only the harm from the police and the gangs, but also from a mix of social and racial discrimination from the upper classes and from the legal system. There is no fast solution, as the mitigation of poverty is a slow process, and is the only way out. Reform of the Police and legalization of cannabis would help though, but only the elimination of the extreme inequality will bring a definitive change. Brazil is on the way, things have improved a little in those last years. [1] https://www.google.com.br/search?q=morro+da+coroa&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_PWpVN2ZCYSkNpPvgcgG&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1364&bih=591 https://www.google.com.br/search?q=morro+da+coroa&tbm=isch&t...

lohengramm 12y ago

It is almost 3:00 AM here and I woke up with two guys trying to break in my house. Instantly remembered this thread.