8 ms·

The strangest part is that according to the law (fair use) she should be able to do that. This DRM is effectively creating its own "copyright law", just like Co

The strangest part is that according to the law (fair use) she should be able to do that. This DRM is effectively creating its own "copyright law", just like Cory Doctorow has warned us before. The whole copyright gang from MPAA to OS vendors and chip makers are using DRM to expand the reach of copyright law. And you can't just say "well I'll just break the DRM, since it's legal for me to take the screenshot" either. Because breaking DRM is illegal...So in order to exercise one of your rights you have to break another law.

mikeryan 12y ago
You're conflating copyright law. She is legally allowed to take screenshots and clips from copyrighted material. There's nothing in or about copyright law that requires content providers to make this easy.
- jrochkind1 12y ago
  The DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent technological protections in many instances where the result would still be fair use, if it weren't for the technological protections and the DMCA making circumventing them illegal. It's not just that the content providers 'make it hard' -- it's that their attempts to 'make it hard' are protected by law, not just by difficulty. Even if they DRM doesn't actually make it very hard at all, it's still protected by the DMCA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Title_I:_WIPO_Copyright_and_Performances_and_Phonograms_Treaties_Implementation_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_A...
  - tedunangst 12y ago
    If you read the section on exemptions, you'll see that there's one for exactly this case: decrypting a dvd for the purpose of criticism.
    - jrochkind1 12y ago
      Yes, that is a temporary exemption made by the Librarian of Congress, as the law provides for such temporary exemptions (which can also be renewed by the Librarian -- or not). Nonetheless, the existence of the DMCA as a legal framework, I think, belies the picture the original comment I was responding to paints, of "Just because there is fair use doesn't mean the content providers need to make it easy to copy their works." The DMCA specifically gives the content providers technological "challenges" the force of law, and makes it illegal to circumvent them, without any general exception for fair uses. There are some few specific exemptions (not a general one for anything that constitutes 'fair use' under copyright law), which are not actually part of the law explicitly, but temporary and at the discretion of the Librarian of Congress.
- fpgeek 12y ago
  Easy or hard isn't the issue. The problem is there's an evil catch-22 at the intersection of copyright law and DRM: She's allowed to take the screenshots and clips, but it's illegal for her to get the DRM removal tools that would let her do that. And even if she magically acquired the tools, it is illegal for her to use them, even for an otherwise legal purpose. It's like giving you a driver's license, but making it illegal for you to buy, rent, borrow or be gifted a car. And if you did happen to have a car anyway, it's also illegal to start, stop or steer it.
buro9 12y ago
She is an academic in the UK, I'm not sure fair use applies but something else probably does. She's far more aware of those issues than I, I just advise how to get things done regardless of whatever constraints she may be under. My understanding though is that the constraints are technology based and how they interfere and prevent some things, rather than legally based and whether she is allowed to do something or not.
- vidarh 12y ago
  Fair use is called "fair dealing" in UK law (and in many other common law jurisdictions). It's not exactly the same, but similar enough in most cases.

mikeryan 12y ago

You're conflating copyright law. She is legally allowed to take screenshots and clips from copyrighted material. There's nothing in or about copyright law that requires content providers to make this easy.

jrochkind1 12y ago
The DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent technological protections in many instances where the result would still be fair use, if it weren't for the technological protections and the DMCA making circumventing them illegal. It's not just that the content providers 'make it hard' -- it's that their attempts to 'make it hard' are protected by law, not just by difficulty. Even if they DRM doesn't actually make it very hard at all, it's still protected by the DMCA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Title_I:_WIPO_Copyright_and_Performances_and_Phonograms_Treaties_Implementation_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_A...
- tedunangst 12y ago
  If you read the section on exemptions, you'll see that there's one for exactly this case: decrypting a dvd for the purpose of criticism.
  - jrochkind1 12y ago
    Yes, that is a temporary exemption made by the Librarian of Congress, as the law provides for such temporary exemptions (which can also be renewed by the Librarian -- or not). Nonetheless, the existence of the DMCA as a legal framework, I think, belies the picture the original comment I was responding to paints, of "Just because there is fair use doesn't mean the content providers need to make it easy to copy their works." The DMCA specifically gives the content providers technological "challenges" the force of law, and makes it illegal to circumvent them, without any general exception for fair uses. There are some few specific exemptions (not a general one for anything that constitutes 'fair use' under copyright law), which are not actually part of the law explicitly, but temporary and at the discretion of the Librarian of Congress.
fpgeek 12y ago
Easy or hard isn't the issue. The problem is there's an evil catch-22 at the intersection of copyright law and DRM: She's allowed to take the screenshots and clips, but it's illegal for her to get the DRM removal tools that would let her do that. And even if she magically acquired the tools, it is illegal for her to use them, even for an otherwise legal purpose. It's like giving you a driver's license, but making it illegal for you to buy, rent, borrow or be gifted a car. And if you did happen to have a car anyway, it's also illegal to start, stop or steer it.

buro9 12y ago

She is an academic in the UK, I'm not sure fair use applies but something else probably does. She's far more aware of those issues than I, I just advise how to get things done regardless of whatever constraints she may be under. My understanding though is that the constraints are technology based and how they interfere and prevent some things, rather than legally based and whether she is allowed to do something or not.

vidarh 12y ago
Fair use is called "fair dealing" in UK law (and in many other common law jurisdictions). It's not exactly the same, but similar enough in most cases.