28 ms·

The Rust Belt Theory of Low-Cost High Culture

55 points by wallflower 12y ago

rayiner 12y ago
My wife and I recently moved to Baltimore from another rust-belt city with underrated culture: Philadelphia. Both punch above their weight in art as well as food. We were all just as the Walters yesterday. A gorgeous museum with no entrance fee, in a city more famous for its dilapidation than for its art. The linked-to article about Detroit is quite depressing: > Officials at the city-owned museum, which, along with Detroit, has struggled financially for many years, had said as recently as two weeks ago that such a huge commitment — money to help the city pay its pensions — would be “completely unfeasible.” But in a statement on Wednesday the museum said that it had reached out to corporate leaders in Detroit and would commit to a multiyear effort that would “stretch our fund-raising abilities to their capacity” as a way to protect its collection. What a particularly grotesque expression of intergenerational wealth transfer: taking art away from the young to pay for pensions for the old.
- danjayh 12y ago
  In Detroit, the situation is simple and difficult. The city's population used to be much larger. The city made commitments to its then-workers based on the assumption that population and revenue would hold fast. The city's population shrank dramatically, leaving a small tax base to support huge legacy costs. End result has been a bankruptcy, cuts to city pensions, and a city that is solvent but running on a shoestring budget. The final bankruptcy resulted in the DIA maintaining its full collection and being transferred to a private nonprofit, made possible by funding from donors and the state (they basically paid the city the value of the collection, and in return, the city relinquished ownership of the DIA). All of this was accomplished by the state, which at the behest of the governor temporarily wrested control of the city's finances from city leaders and appointed an emergency manager (who, admittedly, was the one looking into selling the collection ... but with hard times come hard choices). They are working to reduce the footprint of the city by literally plowing sections of it under, thereby reducing upkeep costs, and through this process will eventually end up with a physically smaller city that is financially feasible given the current taxbase (fun fact- you can buy a decent fixer upper house in Detroit for less than the cost of a used car, due to massive oversupply). Outside of Detroit proper, the surrounding areas have fared much better.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    > The city made commitments to its then-workers based on the assumption that population and revenue would hold fast Just a few years ago the pension board, without oversight, continued to give out 13th checks (a bonus pension check for the 13th month of the year) in years that they happened to have above-average returns. Of course, the years with above-average returns were supposed to balance out the years with below-average returns. Google Detroit 13th check for more on that one. Some groups sued to get the 13th check turned back on, arguing that the issuance of them, even though it happened without oversight, created an expectation of them and therefore a contractual obligation.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  What I remember most about the Walters is the marble Roman sarcophagi collection. I'd never paid much attention to that particular art form until I saw the ones in Baltimore. Random story about a visit there. Some time in the mid-90s I was in Baltimore to visit an old friend of mine. We went to the Walters, and as we were leaving we were walking down the street and randomly ran into a friend of hers, who she'd also known from college. Talking to him, it turned out I also knew him, from when he'd interviewed me over the phone for an article in Baltimore magazine about game designer Sid Meier (who was from Baltimore). I was just a fan of Meier's, but the friend had found me via Usenet, where I'd written about one of the Civ games, and then interviewed me about the impact of the Civ series on game-dom. Still friends with that guy on Facebook today. He's still writing about tech stuff and taking great pics of graffiti in Brooklyn, where he lives now. Fun thing about the internet, never know who you'll run into.
danjayh 12y ago
He missed the big picture in my opinion: in these cities, everything is cheaper. You can get a new-ish, nice 3000sqft house for 200-300k in a good to excellent school district in my area (Grand Rapids, MI) ... for those of you on the west coast, take a look at the houses on grar.com to get an idea of what housing money gets you in the midwest. Gas? $1.75/gal right now, way less than some of the larger cities, especially on the west coast (even when gas prices were high, they were less high here). Food, movies, broadway shows, symphony, land, taxes, all of life's expenses are less. I used to live in a trendy 1200sqft condo in the city center (it had all the perks - rooftop deck with pool and hot tub, indoor parking, community room with pool tables, walking distance to bars/restaurants, etc.) for $1200/month. Now I live an 18 minute drive from work (13 minutes from downtown) on 11 acres, and I paid < $200k for my place (although it's only 1500sqft). If you have to take a pay cut for a software job from $150k in Silicon Valley to 75-100k here, you still come out with a much higher standard of living and more left over to save for retirement. What baffles me is that more tech companies haven't set up shop in these areas. Around here we have Michigan State University, Grand Valley State University, Calvin College, U of M, and many other schools with solid engineering programs cranking out a steady supply of good to excellent engineers. I think that other rust belt cities have similarly good schools. Everything you need to live is on sale from the perspective of an individual, and talent is on sale from the perspective of an employer. In Detroit there is much engineering talent available due to the presence of the automotive industry, and once again, everything in certain areas on the east side of the state is incredibly cheap. I guess the real question is what has failed for these cities - has leadership failed to attract industry, has the community failed to advertise the wonderful things happening in them (Grand Rapids, at least, is a good place to live), or are people just unwilling to put up with the winters?
- organsnyder 12y ago
  Fellow Grand Rapidian here. I think we've done quite well with self-promotion (as evidenced by the fact that we're on just about every "best place to live/work/retire/drink" list in the past five years). I paid just over $200k for 2500 sqft on 3/4 of an acre that's within easy walking distance of four transit lines. It was amusing to hear my friends home for the holidays talking about their $2k+ rents for tiny apartments in NYC and similar locales. Yes, they have access to far more entertainment options than I do, but I have yet to get anywhere close to utilizing all of the options we have here in GR, either. I also appreciate our easy access to water - I can remember once in my lifetime when we had any restrictions on water usage due to drought (lawn sprinkling was limited to alternating days, IIRC). Lake Michigan makes for a great reservoir. As one currently seeking a new job, I've also been disappointed with the number of truly top-notch tech employers in the area; there are a few, but less than we should have IMHO, given the potential client base in the area. Part of it is a function of the labor market, I'd guess—the talent pool here is not as large as it could be. I think that this will continue to improve as GR continues to cement its reputation as a "millenial-friendly" city and the healthcare sector continues to explode.
phillc73 12y ago
Having lived in London for many years, although now moved to Austria, I feel privileged to have enjoyed free and very cost effective "high culture" for many years. So much so, that I simply forgot this wasn't the case in many other locations. All London's major museums and galleries offer free entry.[1][2] The BBC Proms, a classical music festival in the Royal Albert Hall spanning almost three months each year between July and September, offer £5 tickets to every concert, if you're willing to promenade (stand).[3] Even tickets for reasonable seats can be obtained for less than £20, although popular concerts do book out well in advance. The article author's assertion that high prices in "creative-class capitals" are driven by "deep-pocketed local elites and high-spending tourists," is clearly not true everywhere. [1] http://www.timeout.com/london/museums/free-museums-in-london http://www.timeout.com/london/museums/free-museums-in-london [2] http://www.visitlondon.com/tag/free-attractions http://www.visitlondon.com/tag/free-attractions [3] http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/features/ticket-prices http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/features/ticket-prices
- walshemj 12y ago
  And to follow up a few years ago I took my sister to the national theatre in London ticket price £10 a head. Will be looking to go to the globe theatre in the summer as its just over the river to where I am working
- danjayh 12y ago
  Many museums in the US (at least in the midwest) have "free days". In my town, for example, the art museum is free on Tuesday and during certain weeks of the year (when we have art festivals, for instance).
  - devonkim 12y ago
    The source of funding for a lot of these events in the US is somewhat insidious though. Case in point is Museums On Us is sponsored by Bank of America. Museums oftentimes barely charge anything for admission partly because a lot of their cost expenditures are highly restricted by the grants and agreements of donors they've signed. Museums are visited more than sports stadiums in the US but museum professionals are hardly paid pro athlete salaries. Good example of how museums in general are struggling and desperate is that Fisk Art Museum was motioning to sell off the most prized parts of its collection to private buyers including Georgia O'Keefe works explicitly donated by her to keep there so that art is accessible to everyone - at a historically black college at that. The grant structured nature of musums has really made it hard for them to operate with modern operating costs, and given universities' shift toward pro sports for revenue we can't sustain most museums. Many are literally one person with 20+ volunteer staff, some of whom were ex-employees that were laid off but just love the collection that much. Other museums are run by descendants of tycoons and will exist basically forever. So do be aware of how you support your local museum. In some cases, I might argue they're total losses and we'd do everyone involved a favor by letting it dissolve. Many museums are glorified corporate or robber baron legacy temples. Museums aren't necessarily money-driven either and each one is highly reflective of whom the board has appointed to lead it. I'm not being anti-corporate, just making it clear that museums can be corporate-run and are highly variable in operations. Disclosure: my wife is a museum collections curation professional
personlurking 12y ago
I can't exactly speak of low-cost high culture but, if you take out the 'high' part, I can say I've been living this way for the past several years. I enjoy several cultural outings per month, free or low cost (and usually w/in walking distance), simply by being "location independent" (ie, living outside the States). For years, I haven't had to spend more than $600/mo in living expenses, having lived tons of different experiences across different countries/cultures and, frankly, I wouldn't trade it. Standard of living hasn't always been the best but, in the foreign cities I've now lived the longest in, I've often found the standard way better than anything I found in the US (a period spanning most of my life). The main take-away for me has been that a higher/better standard of living in exchange for lesser pay is a game-changer. The kinds of things danjayh (currently the top comment) says make it totally worth it. Take the pay cut, make the change. You may surprise yourself.
dennyabraham 12y ago
How are low cost concerts and museums funded? Are donors sufficient? Is it the low cost of living and resulting reduction in staff costs? Is it sustainable in the long run?
- moron4hire 12y ago
  Successive years of excellent portfolio management. Assets are purchased with donor money to create an endowment that makes the entire ship self-sustaining. Or in the case of some places (e.g. Harvard), becoming an economic juggernaut within the community. Actually, "excellent" is the wrong adjective. "Competent" is all that is necessary. However, the non-profit world is often beset with incompetent employees at all levels, from your average worker all the way up to the top directors (well, usually B begets A). There is a problem in the field of people interpreting "we are a non-profit" as "we are a charity in all aspects, including hiring". There is definitely a feeling that only "heartless" (i.e. for-profit) companies worry about productivity. Let's put it this way: if'n you ever had the notion to lie on your resume to get a job, look first to the non-profit world[1]. I've seen several instances at several locations of people with long-standing careers where they STILL aren't competent at the skills they lied about having on their resume when they got hired. [1] that should be read as an indictment of the field, not a recommendation for lying on your resume.
moron4hire 12y ago
As someone who has lived on the East coast the vast majority of his life, currently lives in DC, and has spent quite a lot of time with friends who live in Baltimore, this doesn't really mesh with my experiences. Specifically, I don't think comparing Baltimore and DC is a good example. There are other locations that you could compare to DC to make a better point, but to bring up Baltimore as the main subject is not a strong argument. Yes, you'll be hard-pressed to find a beer in DC for $3, that is for sure. It's not impossible, but Baltimore is definitely more of a beer drinking town than DC. But all of the other talk on music and cultural events is way off. Many of the museums in DC are free, and there are far more of them. I would say the Hirshhorn Museum is the finest modern art museum I've ever been to, and it's completely free, with a wide, rotating selection. For theater, the Kennedy Center has several shows for as little as $10, so I feel like you could probably beat the "7 shows for under $100" metric Mr. MacGillis has thrown down. But there are also many, much bigger events of much more variety as well. And that's just one theater, there are a lot of theaters in the DC area. I also haven't been terribly impressed by Baltimore's housing offerings. They aren't that much cheaper, when you start considering the commuting costs, and it's starting to age poorly. Everyone I've known to buy a house in Baltimore has had to do major renovations. Even living in somewhere like Bethesda is not that much more expensive than Baltimore and you are still inside the DC metro area. But taking an hour on a good day to drive 20 to 30 miles to work (he says he and his wife still work in DC) is ludicrously unsustainable. There aren't any major road projects going in the north-south direction between DC and Philly, as far as I know. The traffic we have today is the best traffic we're ever going to have. Where I think Baltimore succeeds far and away from DC is in neighborhood culture. You just don't have neighborhoods in most of DC and the suburbs. I mean, there are neighborhoods, but there is no identity to each neighborhood. It's all just bedrooms for the Pentagon and Arlington contractors. Why didn't he talk at all about that? The DC area is a monotone, corporatized town. You don't have a local bar. You don't have a local hangout. You don't have that place to go "where everybody knows your name". There is no local flavor because there are no locals. I understand the point he's trying to make. I'd like to get out of DC eventually, because the costs are astronomical (I think it's the 5th most expensive area in the country). But it won't be to go to Baltimore. The way in which he's used Baltimore is not playing to Baltimore's strengths.

55 points by wallflower 12y ago

My wife and I recently moved to Baltimore from another rust-belt city with underrated culture: Philadelphia. Both punch above their weight in art as well as food. We were all just as the Walters yesterday. A gorgeous museum with no entrance fee, in a city more famous for its dilapidation than for its art. The linked-to article about Detroit is quite depressing: > Officials at the city-owned museum, which, along with Detroit, has struggled financially for many years, had said as recently as two weeks ago that such a huge commitment — money to help the city pay its pensions — would be “completely unfeasible.” But in a statement on Wednesday the museum said that it had reached out to corporate leaders in Detroit and would commit to a multiyear effort that would “stretch our fund-raising abilities to their capacity” as a way to protect its collection. What a particularly grotesque expression of intergenerational wealth transfer: taking art away from the young to pay for pensions for the old.

danjayh 12y ago
In Detroit, the situation is simple and difficult. The city's population used to be much larger. The city made commitments to its then-workers based on the assumption that population and revenue would hold fast. The city's population shrank dramatically, leaving a small tax base to support huge legacy costs. End result has been a bankruptcy, cuts to city pensions, and a city that is solvent but running on a shoestring budget. The final bankruptcy resulted in the DIA maintaining its full collection and being transferred to a private nonprofit, made possible by funding from donors and the state (they basically paid the city the value of the collection, and in return, the city relinquished ownership of the DIA). All of this was accomplished by the state, which at the behest of the governor temporarily wrested control of the city's finances from city leaders and appointed an emergency manager (who, admittedly, was the one looking into selling the collection ... but with hard times come hard choices). They are working to reduce the footprint of the city by literally plowing sections of it under, thereby reducing upkeep costs, and through this process will eventually end up with a physically smaller city that is financially feasible given the current taxbase (fun fact- you can buy a decent fixer upper house in Detroit for less than the cost of a used car, due to massive oversupply). Outside of Detroit proper, the surrounding areas have fared much better.
- danielweber 12y ago
  > The city made commitments to its then-workers based on the assumption that population and revenue would hold fast Just a few years ago the pension board, without oversight, continued to give out 13th checks (a bonus pension check for the 13th month of the year) in years that they happened to have above-average returns. Of course, the years with above-average returns were supposed to balance out the years with below-average returns. Google Detroit 13th check for more on that one. Some groups sued to get the 13th check turned back on, arguing that the issuance of them, even though it happened without oversight, created an expectation of them and therefore a contractual obligation.
waterlesscloud 12y ago
What I remember most about the Walters is the marble Roman sarcophagi collection. I'd never paid much attention to that particular art form until I saw the ones in Baltimore. Random story about a visit there. Some time in the mid-90s I was in Baltimore to visit an old friend of mine. We went to the Walters, and as we were leaving we were walking down the street and randomly ran into a friend of hers, who she'd also known from college. Talking to him, it turned out I also knew him, from when he'd interviewed me over the phone for an article in Baltimore magazine about game designer Sid Meier (who was from Baltimore). I was just a fan of Meier's, but the friend had found me via Usenet, where I'd written about one of the Civ games, and then interviewed me about the impact of the Civ series on game-dom. Still friends with that guy on Facebook today. He's still writing about tech stuff and taking great pics of graffiti in Brooklyn, where he lives now. Fun thing about the internet, never know who you'll run into.

danjayh 12y ago

He missed the big picture in my opinion: in these cities, everything is cheaper. You can get a new-ish, nice 3000sqft house for 200-300k in a good to excellent school district in my area (Grand Rapids, MI) ... for those of you on the west coast, take a look at the houses on grar.com to get an idea of what housing money gets you in the midwest. Gas? $1.75/gal right now, way less than some of the larger cities, especially on the west coast (even when gas prices were high, they were less high here). Food, movies, broadway shows, symphony, land, taxes, all of life's expenses are less. I used to live in a trendy 1200sqft condo in the city center (it had all the perks - rooftop deck with pool and hot tub, indoor parking, community room with pool tables, walking distance to bars/restaurants, etc.) for $1200/month. Now I live an 18 minute drive from work (13 minutes from downtown) on 11 acres, and I paid < $200k for my place (although it's only 1500sqft). If you have to take a pay cut for a software job from $150k in Silicon Valley to 75-100k here, you still come out with a much higher standard of living and more left over to save for retirement. What baffles me is that more tech companies haven't set up shop in these areas. Around here we have Michigan State University, Grand Valley State University, Calvin College, U of M, and many other schools with solid engineering programs cranking out a steady supply of good to excellent engineers. I think that other rust belt cities have similarly good schools. Everything you need to live is on sale from the perspective of an individual, and talent is on sale from the perspective of an employer. In Detroit there is much engineering talent available due to the presence of the automotive industry, and once again, everything in certain areas on the east side of the state is incredibly cheap. I guess the real question is what has failed for these cities - has leadership failed to attract industry, has the community failed to advertise the wonderful things happening in them (Grand Rapids, at least, is a good place to live), or are people just unwilling to put up with the winters?

organsnyder 12y ago
Fellow Grand Rapidian here. I think we've done quite well with self-promotion (as evidenced by the fact that we're on just about every "best place to live/work/retire/drink" list in the past five years). I paid just over $200k for 2500 sqft on 3/4 of an acre that's within easy walking distance of four transit lines. It was amusing to hear my friends home for the holidays talking about their $2k+ rents for tiny apartments in NYC and similar locales. Yes, they have access to far more entertainment options than I do, but I have yet to get anywhere close to utilizing all of the options we have here in GR, either. I also appreciate our easy access to water - I can remember once in my lifetime when we had any restrictions on water usage due to drought (lawn sprinkling was limited to alternating days, IIRC). Lake Michigan makes for a great reservoir. As one currently seeking a new job, I've also been disappointed with the number of truly top-notch tech employers in the area; there are a few, but less than we should have IMHO, given the potential client base in the area. Part of it is a function of the labor market, I'd guess—the talent pool here is not as large as it could be. I think that this will continue to improve as GR continues to cement its reputation as a "millenial-friendly" city and the healthcare sector continues to explode.

phillc73 12y ago

Having lived in London for many years, although now moved to Austria, I feel privileged to have enjoyed free and very cost effective "high culture" for many years. So much so, that I simply forgot this wasn't the case in many other locations. All London's major museums and galleries offer free entry.[1][2] The BBC Proms, a classical music festival in the Royal Albert Hall spanning almost three months each year between July and September, offer £5 tickets to every concert, if you're willing to promenade (stand).[3] Even tickets for reasonable seats can be obtained for less than £20, although popular concerts do book out well in advance. The article author's assertion that high prices in "creative-class capitals" are driven by "deep-pocketed local elites and high-spending tourists," is clearly not true everywhere. [1] http://www.timeout.com/london/museums/free-museums-in-london http://www.timeout.com/london/museums/free-museums-in-london [2] http://www.visitlondon.com/tag/free-attractions http://www.visitlondon.com/tag/free-attractions [3] http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/features/ticket-prices http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/features/ticket-prices

walshemj 12y ago
And to follow up a few years ago I took my sister to the national theatre in London ticket price £10 a head. Will be looking to go to the globe theatre in the summer as its just over the river to where I am working
danjayh 12y ago
Many museums in the US (at least in the midwest) have "free days". In my town, for example, the art museum is free on Tuesday and during certain weeks of the year (when we have art festivals, for instance).
- devonkim 12y ago
  The source of funding for a lot of these events in the US is somewhat insidious though. Case in point is Museums On Us is sponsored by Bank of America. Museums oftentimes barely charge anything for admission partly because a lot of their cost expenditures are highly restricted by the grants and agreements of donors they've signed. Museums are visited more than sports stadiums in the US but museum professionals are hardly paid pro athlete salaries. Good example of how museums in general are struggling and desperate is that Fisk Art Museum was motioning to sell off the most prized parts of its collection to private buyers including Georgia O'Keefe works explicitly donated by her to keep there so that art is accessible to everyone - at a historically black college at that. The grant structured nature of musums has really made it hard for them to operate with modern operating costs, and given universities' shift toward pro sports for revenue we can't sustain most museums. Many are literally one person with 20+ volunteer staff, some of whom were ex-employees that were laid off but just love the collection that much. Other museums are run by descendants of tycoons and will exist basically forever. So do be aware of how you support your local museum. In some cases, I might argue they're total losses and we'd do everyone involved a favor by letting it dissolve. Many museums are glorified corporate or robber baron legacy temples. Museums aren't necessarily money-driven either and each one is highly reflective of whom the board has appointed to lead it. I'm not being anti-corporate, just making it clear that museums can be corporate-run and are highly variable in operations. Disclosure: my wife is a museum collections curation professional

personlurking 12y ago

I can't exactly speak of low-cost high culture but, if you take out the 'high' part, I can say I've been living this way for the past several years. I enjoy several cultural outings per month, free or low cost (and usually w/in walking distance), simply by being "location independent" (ie, living outside the States). For years, I haven't had to spend more than $600/mo in living expenses, having lived tons of different experiences across different countries/cultures and, frankly, I wouldn't trade it. Standard of living hasn't always been the best but, in the foreign cities I've now lived the longest in, I've often found the standard way better than anything I found in the US (a period spanning most of my life). The main take-away for me has been that a higher/better standard of living in exchange for lesser pay is a game-changer. The kinds of things danjayh (currently the top comment) says make it totally worth it. Take the pay cut, make the change. You may surprise yourself.

dennyabraham 12y ago

How are low cost concerts and museums funded? Are donors sufficient? Is it the low cost of living and resulting reduction in staff costs? Is it sustainable in the long run?

moron4hire 12y ago
Successive years of excellent portfolio management. Assets are purchased with donor money to create an endowment that makes the entire ship self-sustaining. Or in the case of some places (e.g. Harvard), becoming an economic juggernaut within the community. Actually, "excellent" is the wrong adjective. "Competent" is all that is necessary. However, the non-profit world is often beset with incompetent employees at all levels, from your average worker all the way up to the top directors (well, usually B begets A). There is a problem in the field of people interpreting "we are a non-profit" as "we are a charity in all aspects, including hiring". There is definitely a feeling that only "heartless" (i.e. for-profit) companies worry about productivity. Let's put it this way: if'n you ever had the notion to lie on your resume to get a job, look first to the non-profit world[1]. I've seen several instances at several locations of people with long-standing careers where they STILL aren't competent at the skills they lied about having on their resume when they got hired. [1] that should be read as an indictment of the field, not a recommendation for lying on your resume.

moron4hire 12y ago

As someone who has lived on the East coast the vast majority of his life, currently lives in DC, and has spent quite a lot of time with friends who live in Baltimore, this doesn't really mesh with my experiences. Specifically, I don't think comparing Baltimore and DC is a good example. There are other locations that you could compare to DC to make a better point, but to bring up Baltimore as the main subject is not a strong argument. Yes, you'll be hard-pressed to find a beer in DC for $3, that is for sure. It's not impossible, but Baltimore is definitely more of a beer drinking town than DC. But all of the other talk on music and cultural events is way off. Many of the museums in DC are free, and there are far more of them. I would say the Hirshhorn Museum is the finest modern art museum I've ever been to, and it's completely free, with a wide, rotating selection. For theater, the Kennedy Center has several shows for as little as $10, so I feel like you could probably beat the "7 shows for under $100" metric Mr. MacGillis has thrown down. But there are also many, much bigger events of much more variety as well. And that's just one theater, there are a lot of theaters in the DC area. I also haven't been terribly impressed by Baltimore's housing offerings. They aren't that much cheaper, when you start considering the commuting costs, and it's starting to age poorly. Everyone I've known to buy a house in Baltimore has had to do major renovations. Even living in somewhere like Bethesda is not that much more expensive than Baltimore and you are still inside the DC metro area. But taking an hour on a good day to drive 20 to 30 miles to work (he says he and his wife still work in DC) is ludicrously unsustainable. There aren't any major road projects going in the north-south direction between DC and Philly, as far as I know. The traffic we have today is the best traffic we're ever going to have. Where I think Baltimore succeeds far and away from DC is in neighborhood culture. You just don't have neighborhoods in most of DC and the suburbs. I mean, there are neighborhoods, but there is no identity to each neighborhood. It's all just bedrooms for the Pentagon and Arlington contractors. Why didn't he talk at all about that? The DC area is a monotone, corporatized town. You don't have a local bar. You don't have a local hangout. You don't have that place to go "where everybody knows your name". There is no local flavor because there are no locals. I understand the point he's trying to make. I'd like to get out of DC eventually, because the costs are astronomical (I think it's the 5th most expensive area in the country). But it won't be to go to Baltimore. The way in which he's used Baltimore is not playing to Baltimore's strengths.