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I recognize this as completely empirical evidence, so take it as that. I am a Mormon. As part of our religious observance, we fast for 2 meals on the first Sun

I recognize this as completely empirical evidence, so take it as that. I am a Mormon. As part of our religious observance, we fast for 2 meals on the first Sunday of every month. Also, I have fasted for the entire duration of the Muslim month of Ramadan twice now. For Mormons, food and drink is abstained starting Saturday night after dinner until Sunday night's dinner. By the time dinner rolls around Sunday night, I am pretty weak. However, I have noticed that when I fast that Sunday, the following week, my system seems to clean itself out. I feel more alert, and energy seems to peak for a prolonged duration that first week. While participating in Ramadan, food and drink is abstained from dawn to sunset for each day during the month. This usually means packing in the necessary proteins and carbohydrates for slow breakdown in the morning, and a filler at night. Both times, I shed about 10-15 pounds. Ramadan was much more difficult for me to participate in, because I need to remain alert and active while at work. I can maintain that needed level until early in the afternoon, when I start to slow down. By the time my shift is over, I'm really not very productive. However, right about the time I am getting off of my shift, I notice that my hunger pains disappear, even though I'm still weak. While I can't say I notice the increased energy or alertness at the end of the Ramadan, shedding the weight was a positive bonus, although it was not intended. In both cases, Mormon fasting and participating in Ramadan, I can say that I have noticed personal health benefits, whether it is increased energy, or losing weight. Others I have talked to have noticed the same thing, both Mormons and Muslims alike. So, it doesn't surprise me that there will be immune system benefits as well.

mb_72 12y ago
I have Crohn's disease, have therefore been exposed to numerous doubtful stories about 'boosting the immune' system. With my illness, a 'boost' would actually make me sicker, whereas I find that fasting for a couple of days results in improvement of symptoms for me. Why? Obviously because my digestive system becomes empty, and there is less irritation of damaged intestinal lining. Going by this study, an increased production of white blood cells should make me sicker. My anecdotal evidence does not support their findings. Long story short - if their claims are true they will be able to be reproduced by other researchers. Until then, colour me sceptical.
- paul 12y ago
  Boosted or unboosted is way too simplistic and one dimensional to explain something as complex as autoimmune dysfunction.
- firebones 12y ago
  If your overactive immune system results in worsening Crohn's symptoms, then fasting would improve your symptoms (by reducing the immune system temporarily + the benefit of no irritants in the digestive system). When the immune system returns to a "normal" (or normal-for-you) state afterwards, you also have irritants back in your digestive system, making it impossible to separate. The question is: do your Crohn's symptoms improve concurrently with the duration of the fast, extend beyond it, or track as expected with the presence of food in your digestive system? I guess where I'm going is that there may be two variables at play that can't be easily separated in the case of Crohn's.
- rjurney 12y ago
  For your Crohn's, fasting would be similar to total bowel rest, wouldn't it? i.e. it would help the bowel heal.
  - mb_72 12y ago
    Yes, I believe that is what happens. On the other hand, my symptoms often seem to improve if I eat pizza for each meal for 24hrs (order one night, consume left overs for the next day). :) Crohn's is one illness that attracts more than it's fair share of woo and 'special diets' and so on. As a result I've become fairly sceptical of any one-off scientific papers that make certain claims, whether they are related to auto-immune diseases or not.
    - shanusmagnus 12y ago
      Your skepticism is probably good, but fasting (and its semi-related brother, caloric restriction) has been the subject of scientific investigation for a long time, so 'one-off' hardly captures the essence of it.
- 12y ago
themodelplumber 12y ago
I'm a Mormon, too, and just wanted to point out a couple of things: > we fast for 2 meals on the first Sunday of every month. Not everyone does (pregnant or nursing women, or the sick, for example (edit: or people who just don't wanna)), and not everyone fasts for that period of time. Some people in different roles in the church (what non-Mormons might call a prophetic / visionary role) are encouraged to fast more often. > For Mormons, food and drink is abstained starting Saturday night after dinner until Sunday night's dinner. Many will frequently shift their fasting times. I do. Just posting this because I often talk to people who tell me exactly what I believe, because they read it online. > In both cases, Mormon fasting and participating in Ramadan, I can say that I have noticed personal health benefits I'm just another anecdote, but I have noticed no personal health benefits. What I would call thinking or meditation benefits, perhaps. I have frequently felt relief that while I may have overeaten the day before a fast, my belt will usually fit nicely on the following fast day. ;)
- atoponce 12y ago
  > Not everyone does (pregnant or nursing women, or the sick, for example), and not everyone fasts for that period of time. Some people in different roles in the church (what non-Mormons might call a prophetic / visionary role) are encouraged to fast more often. Indeed. I wanted to put that in my initial comment, and forgot. If you are sick, pregnant, or there are other health concerns, or doctor's orders to prevent you from fasting, then you don't. Also, you are encouraged to fast more frequently for spiritual matters indeed.
- disputin 12y ago
  "what non-Mormons might call a prophetic / visionary role" Isn't that the other way round? As a non-mormon I'm not about to call anyone prophetic/visionary.
  - themodelplumber 12y ago
    By "call," maybe you are inferring belief but I mean it with no belief and even plenty of skepticism implied.
vpeters25 12y ago
I am not religious or anything, but I think some of the religious rules come from their leaders realizing that making them "rules from God" would benefit their people and give a better chance of survival: - kosher rules are pretty much there to prevent people from preparing food in unsanitary ways or eating potentially dangerous stuff (eating pork will kill you by worms growing in your gut) - the 10 commandments are basic community rules to ensure they don't end up fighting and killing each other, helping the race to survive. - fasting on Ramadan was probably created by a religious leader who felt better after doing it himself and though it to be a good idea for everybody else to do it.
- halflings 12y ago
  >> - fasting on Ramadan was probably created by a religious leader who felt better after doing it himself and though it to be a good idea for everybody else to do it. That religious leader would be Muhammad. That's one way to see things and how I explain part of my belief in Islam to non-religious people: Worst case scenario, I'm just doing things that I believe are pretty smart (fasting, praying, helping the poor and oprhan, keeping a strong sense of family, etc.); best-case scenario it's actually God that told us to do those things. Actually, it's mainly because I believe all those recommendations are pretty darn smart and coherent that I believe it might well be God's message. (Muhammad was an illiterate shepherd after all, hardly who you'd expected to come with these things)
  - vladtaltos 12y ago
    you're supposed to 'believe' to benefit from the best case scenario dude :) just rationalizing about it is not supposed to be enough... and additionally, fasting was around before it was introduced in islam; check it's versions in judaism, christianity... actually, it was also around before that. people used to fast during equinoxes for a very long time for all sorts of different ceremonies...
    - axotty 12y ago
      If God exists, I doubt he cares if we beleive in him or not. I like to beleive he would not be that insecure.
anindyabd 12y ago
I am not Muslim, but I was born and raised in a Muslim country, and almost all my friends are Muslim. As you note, in the month of Ramadan, Muslims fast from dawn to dusk. Right before dawn, they eat seheri, and after dusk, they eat iftaar. During the month of Ramadan, no one seems to lose any weight, mainly because everyone seems to overcompensate during iftaar. Where I come from iftaar food is much oilier and richer than the food people usually eat, and also people tend to eat much more during iftaar than they would otherwise. My friends all regularly report gaining weight at the end of Ramadan. This is probably a cultural thing in my country of origin, but from what I have heard, things are same in other Muslim countries. p.s. Do you mean that your evidence is anecdotal as opposed to empirical? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence
- halflings 12y ago
  Yes, unfortunately in many Arab/Asian countries people over-indulge at Iftar time. It seems less of an issue for "converts" of different origins = more of a cultural thing, as Muhammad -saws- encouraged people to eat and drink moderately, and certainly not over-indulge in a month like Ramadan. Some people, including me, avoid this though. When I was obese (for different reasons), I used to lose 3 or 4 kilograms each Ramadan, but failed to sustain that once the month was over because of my previously terrible lifestyle. My mother also gets leaner during Ramadan because she prepares her own healthy Iftar (mostly Harira, a Moroccan soup, some figs, whole-grains bread and other "sane" alternatives to oily/sugary food)
  - dedif 12y ago
    I loose systematically 2 to 3 kg each Ramadan. People usually exaggerate on food (esp. sweets) during iftaar.
kintamanimatt 12y ago
s/empirical/anecdotal
jqm 12y ago
So.. per this article, shouldn't Mormons and Muslims have stronger immune systems? I wonder if they do. Or are otherwise are more healthy because of this practice. I would be a bit surprised if this were the case, although I could be wrong. I do notice Utah is in top 10 US states for life expectancy (no tobacco might be another reason), but it is not in the top 5. So I'm guessing fasting (and/or a religious preference) may not really produce amazing life extending benefits after all. Edit: Although fasting does have a long history in religious tradition, it is often associated with some not-so-savory movements as well.... http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteris...
jotm 12y ago
Any kind of stress will trigger an increase in immune system activity and cell regeneration. Fasting is one way to do it, working out until you're exhausted is another. A balance between the two is probably best for training your body to be strong.
- dualogy 12y ago
  Yeah and then you catch the flu like anyone else and think, "gee well thanks healthy eating & fasting & working-out, WTF". > Any kind of stress will trigger an increase in immune system activity and cell regeneration Would be nice if that extended to smoking but alas..
IvyMike 12y ago
Is there any study comparing observant Mormons vs. a similar population showing better health? Likewise, is there any study comparing observant Muslims vs. a similar population showing better health? It would be interesting to see either. I'm skeptical (because I feel like every religion claims that their particular diet has health benefits) but open to seeing a study.
- Evgeny 12y ago
  Is there any study comparing observant Mormons vs. a similar population showing better health? There are studies comparing longevity at least. http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/prevmed2008lifestyle%26mormonmortalityenstrom.pdf http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/prevmed2008lifes... active Mormons from age 25 (Anderson, 1999). Males had a life expectancy of 84.1 years, which was 9.8 years greater than that of 1989–1991 U.S. white males. Females had a life expectancy of 86.1 years, which was 5.6 years greater than that of 1989–1991 U.S. white females

mb_72 12y ago

I have Crohn's disease, have therefore been exposed to numerous doubtful stories about 'boosting the immune' system. With my illness, a 'boost' would actually make me sicker, whereas I find that fasting for a couple of days results in improvement of symptoms for me. Why? Obviously because my digestive system becomes empty, and there is less irritation of damaged intestinal lining. Going by this study, an increased production of white blood cells should make me sicker. My anecdotal evidence does not support their findings. Long story short - if their claims are true they will be able to be reproduced by other researchers. Until then, colour me sceptical.

paul 12y ago
Boosted or unboosted is way too simplistic and one dimensional to explain something as complex as autoimmune dysfunction.
firebones 12y ago
If your overactive immune system results in worsening Crohn's symptoms, then fasting would improve your symptoms (by reducing the immune system temporarily + the benefit of no irritants in the digestive system). When the immune system returns to a "normal" (or normal-for-you) state afterwards, you also have irritants back in your digestive system, making it impossible to separate. The question is: do your Crohn's symptoms improve concurrently with the duration of the fast, extend beyond it, or track as expected with the presence of food in your digestive system? I guess where I'm going is that there may be two variables at play that can't be easily separated in the case of Crohn's.
rjurney 12y ago
For your Crohn's, fasting would be similar to total bowel rest, wouldn't it? i.e. it would help the bowel heal.
- mb_72 12y ago
  Yes, I believe that is what happens. On the other hand, my symptoms often seem to improve if I eat pizza for each meal for 24hrs (order one night, consume left overs for the next day). :) Crohn's is one illness that attracts more than it's fair share of woo and 'special diets' and so on. As a result I've become fairly sceptical of any one-off scientific papers that make certain claims, whether they are related to auto-immune diseases or not.
  - shanusmagnus 12y ago
    Your skepticism is probably good, but fasting (and its semi-related brother, caloric restriction) has been the subject of scientific investigation for a long time, so 'one-off' hardly captures the essence of it.
12y ago

themodelplumber 12y ago

I'm a Mormon, too, and just wanted to point out a couple of things: > we fast for 2 meals on the first Sunday of every month. Not everyone does (pregnant or nursing women, or the sick, for example (edit: or people who just don't wanna)), and not everyone fasts for that period of time. Some people in different roles in the church (what non-Mormons might call a prophetic / visionary role) are encouraged to fast more often. > For Mormons, food and drink is abstained starting Saturday night after dinner until Sunday night's dinner. Many will frequently shift their fasting times. I do. Just posting this because I often talk to people who tell me exactly what I believe, because they read it online. > In both cases, Mormon fasting and participating in Ramadan, I can say that I have noticed personal health benefits I'm just another anecdote, but I have noticed no personal health benefits. What I would call thinking or meditation benefits, perhaps. I have frequently felt relief that while I may have overeaten the day before a fast, my belt will usually fit nicely on the following fast day. ;)

atoponce 12y ago
> Not everyone does (pregnant or nursing women, or the sick, for example), and not everyone fasts for that period of time. Some people in different roles in the church (what non-Mormons might call a prophetic / visionary role) are encouraged to fast more often. Indeed. I wanted to put that in my initial comment, and forgot. If you are sick, pregnant, or there are other health concerns, or doctor's orders to prevent you from fasting, then you don't. Also, you are encouraged to fast more frequently for spiritual matters indeed.
disputin 12y ago
"what non-Mormons might call a prophetic / visionary role" Isn't that the other way round? As a non-mormon I'm not about to call anyone prophetic/visionary.
- themodelplumber 12y ago
  By "call," maybe you are inferring belief but I mean it with no belief and even plenty of skepticism implied.

vpeters25 12y ago

I am not religious or anything, but I think some of the religious rules come from their leaders realizing that making them "rules from God" would benefit their people and give a better chance of survival: - kosher rules are pretty much there to prevent people from preparing food in unsanitary ways or eating potentially dangerous stuff (eating pork will kill you by worms growing in your gut) - the 10 commandments are basic community rules to ensure they don't end up fighting and killing each other, helping the race to survive. - fasting on Ramadan was probably created by a religious leader who felt better after doing it himself and though it to be a good idea for everybody else to do it.

halflings 12y ago
>> - fasting on Ramadan was probably created by a religious leader who felt better after doing it himself and though it to be a good idea for everybody else to do it. That religious leader would be Muhammad. That's one way to see things and how I explain part of my belief in Islam to non-religious people: Worst case scenario, I'm just doing things that I believe are pretty smart (fasting, praying, helping the poor and oprhan, keeping a strong sense of family, etc.); best-case scenario it's actually God that told us to do those things. Actually, it's mainly because I believe all those recommendations are pretty darn smart and coherent that I believe it might well be God's message. (Muhammad was an illiterate shepherd after all, hardly who you'd expected to come with these things)
- vladtaltos 12y ago
  you're supposed to 'believe' to benefit from the best case scenario dude :) just rationalizing about it is not supposed to be enough... and additionally, fasting was around before it was introduced in islam; check it's versions in judaism, christianity... actually, it was also around before that. people used to fast during equinoxes for a very long time for all sorts of different ceremonies...
  - axotty 12y ago
    If God exists, I doubt he cares if we beleive in him or not. I like to beleive he would not be that insecure.

anindyabd 12y ago

I am not Muslim, but I was born and raised in a Muslim country, and almost all my friends are Muslim. As you note, in the month of Ramadan, Muslims fast from dawn to dusk. Right before dawn, they eat seheri, and after dusk, they eat iftaar. During the month of Ramadan, no one seems to lose any weight, mainly because everyone seems to overcompensate during iftaar. Where I come from iftaar food is much oilier and richer than the food people usually eat, and also people tend to eat much more during iftaar than they would otherwise. My friends all regularly report gaining weight at the end of Ramadan. This is probably a cultural thing in my country of origin, but from what I have heard, things are same in other Muslim countries. p.s. Do you mean that your evidence is anecdotal as opposed to empirical? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_evidence

halflings 12y ago
Yes, unfortunately in many Arab/Asian countries people over-indulge at Iftar time. It seems less of an issue for "converts" of different origins = more of a cultural thing, as Muhammad -saws- encouraged people to eat and drink moderately, and certainly not over-indulge in a month like Ramadan. Some people, including me, avoid this though. When I was obese (for different reasons), I used to lose 3 or 4 kilograms each Ramadan, but failed to sustain that once the month was over because of my previously terrible lifestyle. My mother also gets leaner during Ramadan because she prepares her own healthy Iftar (mostly Harira, a Moroccan soup, some figs, whole-grains bread and other "sane" alternatives to oily/sugary food)
- dedif 12y ago
  I loose systematically 2 to 3 kg each Ramadan. People usually exaggerate on food (esp. sweets) during iftaar.

kintamanimatt 12y ago

s/empirical/anecdotal

jqm 12y ago

So.. per this article, shouldn't Mormons and Muslims have stronger immune systems? I wonder if they do. Or are otherwise are more healthy because of this practice. I would be a bit surprised if this were the case, although I could be wrong. I do notice Utah is in top 10 US states for life expectancy (no tobacco might be another reason), but it is not in the top 5. So I'm guessing fasting (and/or a religious preference) may not really produce amazing life extending benefits after all. Edit: Although fasting does have a long history in religious tradition, it is often associated with some not-so-savory movements as well.... http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteris...

jotm 12y ago

Any kind of stress will trigger an increase in immune system activity and cell regeneration. Fasting is one way to do it, working out until you're exhausted is another. A balance between the two is probably best for training your body to be strong.

dualogy 12y ago
Yeah and then you catch the flu like anyone else and think, "gee well thanks healthy eating & fasting & working-out, WTF". > Any kind of stress will trigger an increase in immune system activity and cell regeneration Would be nice if that extended to smoking but alas..

IvyMike 12y ago

Is there any study comparing observant Mormons vs. a similar population showing better health? Likewise, is there any study comparing observant Muslims vs. a similar population showing better health? It would be interesting to see either. I'm skeptical (because I feel like every religion claims that their particular diet has health benefits) but open to seeing a study.

Evgeny 12y ago
Is there any study comparing observant Mormons vs. a similar population showing better health? There are studies comparing longevity at least. http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/prevmed2008lifestyle%26mormonmortalityenstrom.pdf http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/prevmed2008lifes... active Mormons from age 25 (Anderson, 1999). Males had a life expectancy of 84.1 years, which was 9.8 years greater than that of 1989–1991 U.S. white males. Females had a life expectancy of 86.1 years, which was 5.6 years greater than that of 1989–1991 U.S. white females