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I began programming when I was 8, like a lot of people on HN and elsewhere. Programming has always been my hobby, and I’ve enjoyed writing beautiful, readable,
by winter_blue 12y ago
I began programming when I was 8, like a lot of people on HN and elsewhere. Programming has always been my hobby, and I’ve enjoyed writing beautiful, readable, maintainable, and (sometimes) efficient code. I was blessed enough to have parents who were willing and could afford to send me over to the United States for college. But I was far more lucky to have won the H1B lottery that let me live here after college. Not everyone was as lucky. (See http://app.fwd.us/stories/429 http://app.fwd.us/stories/429) Students graduating with PhDs from Ivy League schools who wish to stay get kicked out of the country every year because they didn’t win a lottery. The truth is it’s incredibly hard to immigrate to the US legally.
For a lot of people, the H1B acts as a stepping stone to a green card (i.e., to an EB visa). These people aren’t really “guest workers” — a lot of them will stay and become citizens. If you don’t have relatives here, are not a refugee, and aren’t lucky enough to score a diversity visa, skilled/employment-based immigration is the only route. And it’s incredibly hard to come to this country under the skilled/employment-based immigration route.
One of the fallacies that a lot of people who oppose skilled immigration subscribe to is the “lump-of-labor theory”. It’s a hardened belief that jobs are a zero-sum game — and from this arises the idea that every skilled immigrant takes away a job from a U.S. worker. This isn’t true. More skilled, educated workers will actually add to the economy — and grow the economy. Just imagine: what if the U.S. had not let in the millions of immigrants it did during the 1800s out of a fear that citizen workers would loose their jobs? We’d have a much smaller population, and subsequently a lower total GDP. We might be equally well-off on a per capita basis, but we wouldn’t be the country we are today.
PG might have been wrong in that not every skilled immigrant is 100x more skilled that his native counterpart. But I agree with him that letting more skilled/educated people in, would be a good thing for this country overall.
- anindyabd 12y agoAmerica is a country of immigrants, that, throughout its history, has hated new immigrants [1]. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativism_%28politics%29#Nativism_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativism_%28politics%29#Nativis...
- twic 12y agoThis is true of every country except the handful in East Africa where the human race originally evolved.
- ProAm 12y agoWhile what you say is true, many countries will not allow a company to hire a foreigner if you can fill the same position with a citizen. From the perspective of an American, it's often an uncomfortable fact that we pay taxes to the government who willingly allows companies to outsource or externally hire our jobs, The effect of this does cap/limit salaries for all involved. That is one side of the coin. The other side which I fully agree with, that more skilled and educated a population is the more enriched it can become,. There are great benefits to have a large number of smart educated people working together for the greater good.
- winter_blue 12y agoA couple of points: 1) Immigrants pay taxes just like everyone else. 2) With "government who willingly allows companies to outsource or externally hire our jobs" -- it sounds like you believe in the lump-of-labor fallacy. The idea that skilled immigrants take away jobs from natives is widespread, but generally false. See: http://journal.dedasys.com/2014/12/29/people-places-and-jobs/ http://journal.dedasys.com/2014/12/29/people-places-and-jobs... In addition, "government who willingly allows" implies that the U.S. is very immigration-friendly. Nothing could be further from the truth. Countries like Canada, Australia, the UAE, certain EU countries, etc. all have far, far more welcoming immigration rules. As a personal anecdote: before I got my current job, I had interviewed with Facebook, and they said that if I didn't make it through the H1B lottery, I could work at their office in Canada. The fact is, the U.S. is one of the hardest countries in the world to immigrate to; and from an employer's perspective, one of the countries that makes it hardest to hire someone from outside. 3) The idea that there is no shortage of skilled developers in the US is not corroborated either by fact, or my personal experience. My company has had a really hard time finding skilled developers. We've been hiring smart people who have had limited exposure to programming (12 weeks of bootcamp) and who come from non-CS/non-STEM backgrounds, and basically training them to become developers. I know several people in the industry who all say that they've had a hard time finding skilled developers. Both higher-ups (managers, HR, etc) and developers have mentioned at some point or another the difficulty they or their company has had in finding good developers. Maybe it's just NYC. But, I don't buy into the idea that there are plenty of qualified developers in the US who are looking for a job.
- 12y ago